Couples Therapy with Dennis Schoneveld favorite_border

Conversations from the Heart - November 6th 2020

Author: Rachel Brathen

Topics: Exciting Guests, Love, Family, Self-Love

Links: Apple Podcasts / Spotify

About the Episode

Couples who do therapy together, stay together!

What do Rachel and Dennis do to deepen their relationship? How does Dennis feel about the practice of sharing? Why does Ironman make Dennis emotional?

All of these questions and more answered in this week’s episode of the Yoga Girl Podcast as Rachel is again joined by our favorite guest, her husband Dennis.

Rachel and Dennis are in the midst of a 9-week couple’s course and Dennis is currently in the US, so they share everything from intimate communication (and how Rachel and Dennis do it differently), supporting each other’s self-care practices, why communication and intimacy is the most important thing, parenting, traveling to an Ironman in Florida during the election and a pandemic, and more!

Rachel and Dennis’ self-care practices differ immensely, but it’s all coming full circle in this episode as Rachel actually gets Dennis to open up about his feelings and doing the inner work. It’s through open communication that they recognize the need for their own individual self-care practices that will bring them closer as a couple.

But ultimately, how does Dennis feel about it? Tune in to find out!

Key Takeaways

  • Recognize your partners need for their own individual self-care practices, and do everything you can to support them in doing so.
  • Communication is key in any relationship, but chances are our partner communicates in a different way than you do! Honor your differences so both of your needs can be met.
  • Carve out time to be alone. We all re-charge in different ways and many of us need alone time to fill our cup. Don’t make your partners need to be alone about you, but rather support each others individuality.
  • Therapy is something to be proud of! Doing the work on your own and together as a couple will only strengthen the foundation of your relationship.
  • Stepping out of your comfort zone and doing something that your partner is interested in is a huge step to actually take together as a couple! It’s all about give and take, finding the balance and being able to share the things that are important to you both.

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Transcript

[0:03] Rachel: Welcome back to a brand new episode of the Yoga Girl podcast, Conversations From the Heart. I have my favorite guest on the show today, and, and no offense to any of my other many, many amazing guests, but I have a special guest on the show, he’s been on the show before. He’s my favorite guest because of the many inappropriate jokes that always end up coming up on the show, and also, I, I’m married to him [laughs], like he’s the father of my child, he’s my best friend, Dennis. Welcome to the show.

Dennis: Hey, hey, hey.

Rachel: [Laughing] Like, I can’t even think, you saying one word without [laughing] without…

Dennis: I’m always trying new catchphrases.

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: None of them sticks.

Rachel: What’s a catchphrase you’ve had lately?

Dennis: I don’t know.

Rachel: You’ve been really into inappropriate sex jokes lately. Let’s not start on that note.

Dennis: No, but that’s been for the last ten years.

Rachel: [Laughing] Okay, that’s also very true. And maybe you’ve just been on fire in terms of like, you’ve had really good puns lately. Welcome to the show honey bun!

Dennis: Thank you, thanks for having me.

Rachel: You’re so welcome. It’s been awhile since you were on.

Dennis: Yeah, like August I feel.

Rachel: You were on when I was cancelled.

Dennis: Yeah. Twice.

Rachel: Twice. I wasn’t cancelled twice, but you were on twice.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: I hosted…

[Rachel laughs]

Dennis: …and then I never heard anything back. And then I felt like you guys never wanted me on the show anymore.

[1:34] Rachel: [Laughing] You hosted, you did a great job, and then no one reached out, you didn’t like…

Dennis: I thought my career was just going to fly, like just start there, right? I started making arrangements, but nothing happened.

Rachel: Nothing…no agents called you, no…

Dennis: Nothing.

Rachel: Man, I, I…

Dennis: Not even the local ones.

Rachel: Not even [laughing] well maybe that’s because we were cancelled.

[Dennis laughs]

Rachel: Don’t you think? It’s a different vibe now compared to last time you were on.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: How you doing?

Dennis: I’m doing good.

Rachel: Good means?

Dennis: Well.

Rachel: Well means?

Dennis: Excellent.

Rachel: Excellent means?

Dennis: Okay.

Rachel: [Laughing] Okay, so…

[both laughing]

Rachel: …we can start off on this note right away [laughs]. So Dennis and I, we are, we started a, a couples course.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. We’re going to talk about that. We started a couples course, it’s a couple’s course on intimacy and communication [laughing] I can’t even say those words…

[Dennis laughs]

Rachel: …looking at your face right now. It’s a serious course.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. But as I say it looking at you, it makes me feel like I’m joking or something, but I’m…

Dennis: We’re in week one…

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: …from nine weeks, so I guess…

Rachel: We just started.

Dennis: …we don’t know much yet.

Rachel: And the only thing that, like I’ve…okay, let’s started from the beginning. So, I have done a lot of similar courses, not a couples course, we’ve never done a course together. Like I’ve done Path of Love, and different kinds of variations of that kind of process, I teach these kinds of like healing groups, and, and you were always a little bit on the outside of that.

[3:08] Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. Like, taking care of…

Dennis: On the…

Rachel: …Lea, and doing production, and…

Dennis: …organizing and…

Rachel: Right.

Dennis: …hearing only the facilitator sides…

Rachel: Right.

Dennis: …of all of these courses.

Rachel: So for instance, you’ve been, so if you’re listening, you don’t know what a Path of Love is, it’s basically a deep, transformative, life changing process; it’s therapy, and meditation, and healing, and something that totally changed my life. And I also assist Path of Love now, so you’ve actually been on the facilitator side of one of the most intense, I think, courses…

Dennis: Yeah, I’ve been there…

Rachel: …that exists.

Dennis: …when you were assisting.

Rachel: Right.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: So you’ve seen that side of like, people entering groups, but from this other end.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: But you’ve never taken a group.

Dennis: Nope.

Rachel: Why not?

Dennis: I signed up for one, I don’t know if people remember, but we had this huge bet that you were going to do a half Ironman and I was going to do a Path of Love, because…

Rachel: I don’t remember that bet.

Dennis: …because I feel for me to be there for a whole week, and be open, and do all of these things, seems harder in my head, than for you to do a half Ironman. But you, you bailed…

Rachel: I bailed, yeah.

Dennis: …and then…

Rachel: I had good intentions, like I…

Dennis: You didn’t even start.

Rachel: I, dude, I was on a bike, I was…yeah, that’s it. I had good intentions, but it was, what was it? Like for you do a healing group, you wanted to know that I’m also making an effort for something?

[4:35] Dennis: No, it was like…

Rachel: Why did you want me to do that?

Dennis: You really loved, you think it’s good for me, number one, and you really love it. Like something you do, it’s something you love, and it’s something you wanted to share with me, for me to understand better as well what you go through. And I respect that and all that stuff, and I felt in that moment, for me to be able to share what I love, or what I do, was Ironman. And not to make it too hard, we decided half Ironman.

[both laughing]

Rachel: Fuck you and that fucking half Ironman. Yeah…

Dennis: But…

Rachel: …I think I got to a point where like, I was already burnt out, like that was my year of burning out…

Dennis: Yeah, you were fucked.

Rachel: I was fucked, and I was like “okay, I so badly want Dennis to go to Path of Love,” not like, for my sake, but for our whole lives sake, you know?

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: I just want you to like, feel really at home in yourself, and like communicate, and like stuff like that, just so we can, you know, just like you say, share these parts of our, of our lives.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. And then you were like, “well, you gotta bike 90 kilometers, run half a marathon, swim two k, like through this thing,” and I was like, “okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I’m gonna, do that, I’m gonna do that,” and then I added it on top of my life, and I almost like, collapsed, you know?

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: So then…

Dennis: But for me…

Rachel: …I failed, but you were still kind of committed.

Dennis: No, I was committed, so I, I got accepted…

Rachel: And that’s cool.

Dennis: …I was very honest with, because you have to give and interview to get accepted, they don’t just let anyone go in. And you have to show that you’re, like, I guess sane enough to go in?

[6:03] Rachel: No, I think it’s more that you show your emotional commitment, like you’re there…

Dennis: Yeah, you’re willing to work, you’re willing to open.

Rachel: And also that’s like, some sort of emotional maturity, also, you have to have.

Dennis: Stability.

Rachel: Stability, and maturity, and that you’re ready for that kind of…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …process, because it’s very intense, yeah.

Dennis: So I started the interview, and at the end of the interview, the therapist said like, “well, when we started talking, the first two minutes I’m like, ‘no way in hell you’re gonna…

[Rachel laughs]

Dennis: …go to this,’” but after we talked more and more, she was like “you can go.”

Rachel: [Laughing] “You can go. You’re allowed.”

Dennis: But…

Rachel: Did you make an inappropriate joke in the beginning, is that why?

Dennis: No, I just didn’t know much about it, I was just really honest, I wasn’t trying to sell myself, I guess, and yeah. That didn’t come off well in the beginning, but it did in the end, I guess? I don’t know. But I was accepted for a June one. I was going to do one in Europe, because we were supposed to go to Sweden…

Rachel: And Wales, yeah.

Dennis: …for the summer. And Wales, yeah.

Rachel: 2020.

Dennis: And 2020 hit…

Rachel: Swedish summer [laughs].

Dennis: …and Path of Love was just not meant to be.

Rachel: That's the first thing you said. Like when shutdown started happening in March, April, I remember you were like, “I don’t think this Path of Love is going to happen. [Gasps] It’s a sign!”

[Dennis laughing]

Rachel: “The Universe doesn’t want me to go! Okay, good,” like, “now I know, now I never have to try again.” [Laughs]

Dennis: All those sentences that I keep hearing you talk about the Universe, all of them just popped in my head, immediately.

Rachel: [Laughing] And you threw the right back at me.

[both laugh]

[7:29] Rachel: Yeah, but.

Dennis: But yeah, going back to the half Ironman, it’s not the distance, like the reason I wanted to share with you is because when I go through these races, it’s when I process, it’s when I open, it’s like when I break down, I cry sometimes on the bike and then, I don’t know, I just, I, I process all of my things.

Rachel: Yeah, it’s like your…

Dennis: So I wanted to share that with you.

Rachel: …it’s your healing process.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. And I get that, and I respect that.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And I wanna share that with you. It was just not a reasonable thing for me to undertake, you know? But then it’s also part of it, and I think it worked out really well is, you shouldn’t start that sort of intense therapy, or trauma healing, or whatever it is you’re going toward because your spouse wants you to, you know? It has to be something that like, oh, doesn’t have to be a big trauma, but like, “I want to get to know myself better.”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Or, “I want to make sense of my life a little more,” or, “I want to grow in this area,” and maybe then, you didn’t feel like that. It was more like…I think then we weren’t communicating well; I was, I was feeling horrible, we were so busy, we were super stressed.

Dennis: It was not a good, it was not a good time.

Rachel: Yeah, it was not a good time.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: I don't remember if we were fighting a lot, or it was just this overall feeling that “it’s not good.”

Dennis: Yeah, too many things happening, and too many commitments, too many…

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: We were moving too fast. And had a semi-newborn, like one year old, I guess.

Rachel: She was one, one and a half, yeah. Yeah. But okay, fast forward throughout all of this, what did happen is you started therapy.

Dennis: Yeah. I started and stopped.

[9:01] Rachel: Started it. But you kept it up for a long time.

Dennis: Yeah, I did it for almost a whole year.

Rachel: Almost a whole year, yeah. So, you, you mentioned that yesterday like, when you mention to friends or to guys that, that you were in therapy, that sometimes you would get a different response, or how did people react when you shared?

Dennis: Yeah, guys don’t usually talk about these things, it’s, it’s weird, and I don’t know if I don’t have a filter, or I don’t know what I’m supposed to talk about or not talk about…

[Rachel laughs]

Dennis: …but like, I would talk about like me doing therapy like it’s just like me having a beer, and it never came off the wrong way or anything, but it was like, for some guys like I know a shock, it’s like, “oh, really? You know, I kind of did therapy too back in the day.”

Rachel: They’re whispering…

[both laugh]

Dennis: And it’s, it’s weird how many things all of us go, go through without even knowing, but being alongside each other.

Rachel: Right, right.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Do you think that’s a male versus female thing, or you think it’s…

Dennis: I wouldn’t know.

Rachel: …particular to like, some groups of friends of yours, or all friends of yours, or how does that work?

Dennis: I don’t know, I feel like when I travel with my friends, like the group of friends I travel with, that’s when I’m like outside of my family, and I’m just my own person.

Rachel: Freedom!

Dennis: Freedom!

[both laugh softly]

Dennis: We talk, we talk a lot more. Like a lot of times when you’re with a friend for an hour or two, you don’t really get to go deeper, you go like, you get through like, “oh, how’s it going? How’s your kid, how’s your wife?” And then you go home. But when you’re like actually traveling with a friend and you get through all of that, but after the second, third day, you start to talk a lot more. And I like that, you know?

[10:38] Rachel: Isn’t it a part also of, because when you travel with friends, you travel for Ironman. It’s not like you’re traveling to, you know.

Dennis: Well, I’ve been on surf trips that are non-Ironman related.

Rachel: That’s true. Lately, the trips your doing are mainly Ironman. Isn’t it something about people going into this kind of vulnerable, super challenging…

Dennis: You know, I was asking them…

Rachel: …thing?

Dennis: …if, if they get that kind of emotion…

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: …and I don’t think they do.

Rachel: Really?

Dennis: Yeah. I don’t know if it’s I’m, maybe it’s not me being well trained enough to, for an Ironman, because the reason why I break down is because I’m like, “I, I can’t anymore, but I have to keep going.” But I think my friends actually train a lot, and they’re really fit, and then it’s just they go through it.

Rachel: I think it’s just you have a moon in Cancer, which is the most emotional moon, but you’re…

Dennis: And that’s why the Path of Love was cancelled.

Rachel: [Laughing] Shut up!

[both laughing]

Rachel: Every time I mention astrology of any kind, you, this is what I get in response. So you have a moon in Cancer, which is the most emotional moon, but you have a Sun in Aries, which is very fiery, determined, like, “fuck everything else, I can do it.”

Dennis: Yep.

Rachel: So I think it’s also your, like perfect balance of you have a super strong mind, you can do anything, but then eventually, your heart really shines through, and you just soften. When I look at an Ironman race, no one in the whole race looks like you when they, when they do it.

Dennis: Yeah.

[11:58] Rachel: You have a totally…I, I don’t think anyone trains like you either, you have a totally different approach.

Dennis: I have one friend that trains like me…

Rachel: …that trains like you, which means you barely train.

Dennis: Like twice a week [laughs].

Rachel: [Laughing] Twice, twice a week, super casual. But then there’s something about like other people, before the race starts, it’s almost like they close in on themselves, they get a little more like…

Dennis: They get in the zone.

Rachel: They get in the zone, yeah, and you’re like having a beer with your feet up, like still, you’re in a zone, but it looks differently, I think.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And then when I, when I look at you when you’re racing in that really hard time, you’re still looking around, like you’re still open, you still have your shoulders dropped, like you’re smiling a lot, where everyone else looks like they, they close into themselves, but you somehow open.

Dennis: You usually see me on the run though, right?

Rachel: But the bike is too fast.

Dennis: Yeah, the bike is too fast…

Rachel: You’re like zoom! An you’re gone, yeah.

Dennis: And that’s where most of it happens for me, because you’re literally alone, in the middle of nowhere, there’s no one looking at you, there’s just you and your mind, and like, hundreds of — well not hundreds — like 180 kilometer.

Rachel: That’s hundreds, it’s two, it’s almost two hundred kilometers.

Dennis: Tens of…[laughs]

Rachel: How many miles is that for someone who doesn’t…?

Dennis” A hundred and thirteen, hundred and fourteen, I think?

Rachel: Miles, yeah. So basically it’s like super, working out super intensely for…

Dennis: You’re just, six…

Rachel: …twelve to fifteen hours straight.

Dennis: …six hours you’re on the bike, sitting, when you’re around hour four or something, you’re like, “fuck…”

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: …and there’s no one around you.

Rachel: Do you ever go, “fuck, why do I do this?” Or do you go, “fuck, what’s going on inside of me?”

Dennis: Both. Not, not really “why do I do this?” Like, I really enjoy it.

Rachel: You don’t regret it, in the hardest time?

[13:30] Dennis: I don’t regret it, I think the only time I kind of regretted it was last year in Cozumel when I had blisters below both of my feet.

Rachel: You had blisters beneath your blisters.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: On the balls of my feet, so I couldn’t, I couldn’t run. I had to walk so much, and then it was like, “if I can’t walk or run, like I don’t know if I can make it,” and that was, I guess that only time…

Rachel: That was rough, yeah.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: It was rough watching you the last laps too.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: But it is a, I don’t know, I think back then, I was contemplating this now with us starting this course also was back then, when you started Ironman, I resented you so much, like for me, this was like the most selfish thing that could ever happen at the worst moment of our lives. We had like a five month old, or a four month old…

Dennis: It is very selfish.

Rachel: It is very selfish, but at the time it was also me being like pushed to the limit, to the brink, you know? And then you, you embarked on this thing.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And now, what I’m really over, what I have realized is that this is a really spiritual, emotional part of your process.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Like it’s a very important…

Dennis: Yeah, for sure, and not only that, but we have to be selfish. Like you have to be selfish…

Rachel: Yeah, for sure.

Dennis: I have to be selfish, we just have to take turns.

Rachel: We have to take turns, yeah. But that, that time was like the worst time, you know?

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Because there was no, there was no space for me to be selfish for five minutes and you were like, “I’m going to train 20 hours a week. Bye.”

Dennis: I didn’t though.

Rachel: Those first, first months, you trained more than you trained…that’s funny, the first, for the first race, you trained more…

[15:00] Dennis: No, no, no.

Rachel: Second race, you trained more.

Dennis: The second trained…

Rachel: The second one.

Dennis: Yeah, the first one I wasn’t…

Rachel: Then you’ve ever trained…

Dennis: …no, I wasn’t…

Rachel: …the first one, you didn’t really know what it was.

Dennis: I didn’t know what it was, I wasn’t ready at all. We were a month in Sweden that I didn’t get a chance, because I didn’t know Sweden so well either, in the sense of like training, so maybe I ran one time five miles, kilometers, you know?

Rachel: No, you know, you just did it, you were like…

Dennis: I, yeah, I just went for it.

Rachel: “Let’s see.”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Who does that? But I can really remember like, having a, because she was four months old when she stopped sleeping, and already like I’d been, you know, pregnant for nine months, 24 hour delivery, and then zero sleep, zero anything…

Dennis: We were in Stockholm, but you were working.

Rachel: We were con…I was, I never slowed down, like I was working…

Dennis: No, you were working full…

Rachel: …a hundred percent, you know, leading retreats, leading teacher trainings, like juggling a million projects, I had a book, you know, unbelievable amount of things…

Dennis: We were staying in a studio apartment.

Rachel: We were in a studio apartment, thirty square meters, which is like, it’s literally the size of the tiny guest room…

Dennis: It’s a hotel room.

Rachel: …we’re sitting in right now, that was our, yeah.

Dennis: A small hotel room, but you didn’t have a door to close.

Rachel: But, and I think part of it also was it wasn’t just the time and the challenging, the unbelievable challenge of birthing and, you know, taking care of your first child, like the first months of being a mom is like…I look at it now, and it’s almost like, traumatic [laughs] like that’s how hard it was.

Dennis: It is.

Rachel: And then, if she would fall asleep, she’s like, “oh, my God, she’s going to sleep for an hour,” then I had an hour to go work, right? Or an hour to like, record a podcast, or an hour to go back to my retreat group and put on a smile and like, hold everything together. And then you’re like, “yeah, I’m gonna go biking for six hours, see ya!” And I remember that, you know, that feeling of like, I almost started hating you, like it was like, “I cannot believe that this is, that this, this is the road you’re going down right now.”

[16:45] Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: But now I can also see that, that you had to do that, because you also had this total, or at least that was my experience, like a loss of all the normalcy. Like there was a loss of you and me, because all of a sudden, we’re not spooning in bed anymore, there was like a little…

Dennis: There was resentment from both sides.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: When you, for me in my head during that time, during, I would still say it’s like, that difficult time, for me in my head, it was like, you got to go to work…

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: …that was like, my thing. You got to go and be with adults, and be in an office, while I’m just strolling this baby in the city, up and down, just trying to get her to sleep three times a day. And then, and then the first moment I got to be without a baby was that Sunday morning, or that Saturday morning…

Rachel: Where you went to…

Dennis: …where I go to bike.

Rachel: …bike, yeah.

Dennis: And we asked your mom to help as well, on those weekends.

Rachel: Right.

Dennis: But you were like, “fuck man, finally we get a good chance together, and you escape,” and I was like, “I have to escape, like I’m, like I’ve been locked with this, with this…”

Rachel: No, and it’s totally true, and I created that for myself, as like, I got to go to work, which was the only thing I knew. It’s like, I got to go to work, and I didn’t know how to not work, I didn’t know how to, there wasn’t really an option for me to like, go and take genuine good care of myself, because I had never done that, for real. Like I had all my practices, all my resources, all my stuff, but there was an underlying current of just never slowing down, no mater what I did.

[18:06] Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: So, sitting with it now is like, “okay, well of course we had that super challenging time, but I did that, also, you know? It’s interesting now how it’s like we come full circle, I think, because it’s 2020, corona happened, Path of Love was cancelled for you, I decided not to do Ironman, all that stuff happened, bummer. And then suddenly, like 2020 changed our lives, I, I feel like a different person, like I have a different life…

Dennis: I think it’s pretty safe to say the whole world…

Rachel: The whole world, but I mean we had a lot of positive changes also.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Not just because of 2020, but things that were already unfolding before, and prior, and things like that.

[18:45 — Commercial Break]

[19:57] Rachel: Dennis has decided to go to Florida election week for an Ironman race.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And we’re in the middle of a, of a couples course on intimacy and communication.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: While you’re Ironmanning.

Dennis: Well the Ironman was planned before this.

Rachel: I know. But isn’t this kind of full circle, like here we are now, we’re doing the things that we both really wanted to do, but it’s unfolded in a very different way.

Dennis: You think it’s because the moon is in whatever sign it’s in right now?

Rachel: The moon is in Aries right now…

[Dennis laughing]

Rachel: …but I don’t know if that relates to [laughing] all of this, there’s a lot of stuff happening astrologically, okay? But isn’t it, I don’t know, like how do you feel about being in this point of our lives?

Dennis: Like I’m so excited that I got, I get to do one normal thing, I hope…

Rachel: One normal thing, yeah.

Dennis: …yeah, I hope it happens. It’s not normal per se, but it’s like, I don’t know, my, my body’s been craving this for so many months, and finally it gets to happen. And I’m a little freaked out with, yeah, with traveling in the corona season and all that stuff…

[21:05] Rachel: “Season,” like it’s…[laughing]

Dennis: Corona season, 2020.

Rachel: …the corona season.

Dennis: Season Number One. Yeah, we, we’re a small group, we’re going to fly to Miami, in Miami rent a car the next day and then drive all the way up to Panama City Beach. I don’t know if, for people that don’t know how far that is, that’s like a nine to ten hour drive. We’re doing this just so we don’t go through three airports.

Rachel: Because otherwise you’d have to go…

Dennis: Otherwise we’d have to…

Rachel: …Aruba, Miami, Atlanta, something else.

Dennis: It’s like Aruba, Miami, Charlotte, Charlotte, and then you have to wait like four to five hours in each airport.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Let me just, before Dennis explains all this stuff about his travels mid-corona, I have been extremely unsupportive all along. [Laughing] Just, just so everyone is aware. I…

Dennis: Are we, are we talking now, or…

Rachel: [Laughing] Fuck you. For this trip. Like, I don’t know when you booked it, it was like a…

Dennis: I booked it a year ago, I think.

Rachel: No, no, but I mean, but when it became like, I don’t know, two months ago you were like, “I think maybe this Ironman is going to happen.”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And I was like, “no way this Ironman is going to happen. There’s zero possibility.” So you had it booked and I was feeling like, “I don’t even care…”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: “…because it’s going to be cancelled.” And then it wasn’t cancelled, and then it wasn’t cancelled, and then Florida suddenly released all the, like, heavy bans, and they totally eased up, you know, in contrast to the rest of the U.S. And then I think about like three, four weeks ago, you were like, “it’s really going to happen.”

Dennis: Yeah.

[22:29] Rachel: And I’m like, “oh, wait a minute…” [laughs] like, “what, what does this mean?” So I am supportive now because I know how, basically the stuff I do every single morning when I have five a.m. to seven a.m. for all of my personal self-care…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …like that’s all combined in this eight day…how long are you gone?

Dennis: I don’t know, normally…

Rachel: Minus quarantine.

Dennis: …normally I’m gone for a long weekend, but now, because of…

Rachel: It’s at least a, it’s going to be eight days there.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. These eight days for you with the community of the whole group going, and you getting to do the thing that like, sustains you, it’s very, very, very important. So we found the middle ground where I can feel comfortable, and you can go do the thing.

Dennis: And then come back and stay in quarantine forever.

Rachel: Hell yeah. But okay, so continue. So you’re gonna, instead of flying to all the airports, you’re going to drive…

Dennis: So instead of flying, we’re going to…

Rachel: …yeah.

Dennis: …drive ten hours. And…

Rachel: How much…yeah.

Dennis: …there’s no Whole Foods or…

[Rachel laugh]

Dennis: …anything near Panama City that I know of, so if someone listening that knows of a good health food store, please let me know. But along the way, I need to stop at a Whole Foods and just stock…

Rachel: It’s not super vegan-friendly…

Dennis: No, maybe it is, but I don’t know…

Rachel: Panama City Beach, so it’s all the way, like panhandle.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Like, yeah.

Dennis: It was the place that got destroyed two years ago due to a hurricane.

Rachel: Do you guys have to get tested before you fly into the U.S.? Or do you just test on the way back?

Dennis: I think we get tested on the way back, at, at the, at the event, like a few days before the event. And…

Rachel: “I think.”

Dennis: I think, I, I…

Rachel: This is something that would never occur in my life.

Dennis: There’s a health screening…

Rachel: If I was taking this trip, I’d like know exactly what…

Dennis: No, there’s a health screening, so I don’t know what the health screen entails.

Rachel: Mm-hmm, okay. That must be a test.

[24:01] Dennis: So we go through a health screen…

Rachel: To be able to compete?

Dennis: …to be able to compete, and that’s what scares me the most, because maybe I have something that I don’t know…we have, we’ve taken tests before, and we’ve been negative, but maybe you get it, and you don’t even know. I’m always like, socially distant, and I am like that as a person in general…

[both laugh]

Rachel: You were born socially distant [laughs].

Dennis: Yeah, so I’m not worried of like, like contaminating or, how do you say?

Rachel: You’re not worried about giving the other people corona. What are you not worried about?

Dennis: Yeah, I’m not too worried about getting, like, other people with corona because I’m really good at staying, like, socially, social distant, and that’s why I want to go to one of these Whole Foods, because I just want to buy food for the whole week, and I’m just going to cook for myself, I’m not going to go out to dinner, I’m not going to do any of those social things, it’s just purely for the race. In the race I think it’ll be a little bit harder because it’s a race. At the start, we have to wear masks, so we’re going to be, I guess it’s like waves, small group, small group, small group. And then to get in the water, it’s four at a time.

Rachel: Four at a time to swim.

Dennis: Yeah. Separated.

Rachel: So if you’re listening, and you don’t know what Ironman is, it’s like 14, 15 hours of swimming, biking, running.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And you start with swim.

Dennis: You start with swim.

Rachel: How many people in this race?

Dennis: I don’t know. Normally it’s around three thousand, but I think this time it’s…

Rachel: Jesus Christ. Four at a…[laughs].

[25:27] Dennis: …I think this time it’s maybe a thousand, and then they will separate the groups and the times that they swim. So you will get in the water for the time, like separated, and right before you get in the water, you take your mask off, you give it to like, one of those assistants. When you get out, and that’s the only part, because when you get out of the water, everybody kind of spreads out already, so you’re not really in close proximity with anyone else.

Rachel: So just, like, if someone, like, has their mouth open in the water, or spits, and you’re swimming behind them, you don’t, like…this is….[laughs].

Dennis: You have to be…

[both laugh]

Dennis: You have to be very unlucky, but then you have the ocean…

Rachel: You have to swim with a thousand people, like are you kidding?

Dennis: Yeah, but you’re not in the, like…

Rachel: I know.

Dennis: If anyone seen the mask, like start before it’s nothing like that at all. And the old…

Rachel: To me, the mask starts looks terrifying all the time.

Dennis: And you’re also, you’re also in the water…

Rachel: Not because of corona, they just look terrifying.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: A thousand people running into the ocean to like…

Dennis: It can be, it can be dangerous sometimes.

Rachel: …super intense. People drown.

Dennis: People have drowned, yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis; But, anyway, you get out of water, you get a mask, and there is no changing tents anymore. Before you used to go into a changing tent and you used to change, whatever. Now, you go straight to your bike, your bike are all separated from each other, and then you put on your biking shoes and whatever else you need, you go on your bike, and in the transition you get a mask as well, and as you get out, you take the mask off. And for biking, and the running basically you’re…

Rachel: You’re alone.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: You’re not like holding hands with people and…

Dennis: You’re separated, like it’s an individual sport.

Rachel: If there’s a chance that the mask helps, then fucking wear the mask.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Like it’s not that big a deal.

Dennis: But I kinda like it, to be honest.

Rachel: You mean, it makes you feel safer?

[27:00] Dennis: It makes me feel safer and it makes me feel also that I can see on someone’s face when they’re taking precautions.

Rachel: Right.

Dennis: Like…

Rachel: Like that’s really…I wear the mask not because I feel like, “this is keeping me safe,” I don’t feel like that at all. I don’t feel like I wear the mask so I’m not going to get corona, or I wear the mask so I’m not going to give someone corona, I wear a mask because I feel like it shows I care, you know?

Dennis: Yeah. Not only that…

Rachel: I want to follow the rules, I wanna…

Dennis: …but if I got to s supermarket and I see someone else with a mask, I’m going to feel more comfortable…

Rachel: Being there.

Dennis: …than someone not wearing a mask, because I feel like that person is also taking the…

Rachel: The precautions.

Dennis: …the precautions, that are needed…

Rachel: They’re, they’re, they’re doing what they’re doing.

Dennis: We’re all doing the same…

Rachel: Yeah, but I’m more in that place of like, there’s so many people, especially in the yoga world now which I think is, is wild, but also makes sense, because of course, people who lead, you know, really natural, organic lifestyles are not going to be super excited about lysol, and hand sanitizer, and all this sort of shit, like I get that. But I also don’t feel this need to go and get my megaphone and yell to the whole world, like, “hand sanitizer gives you cancer, like don’t…that masks is a conspiracy,” like come one, just, I just feel it’s not helpful right now. And at some point it’s like, okay, we don’t know if this is, if this is the thing that’s going to prove in the end keeps us all safe, and people from dying, but if there’s a chance that it’s going to save someone’s life, just fucking do it. Like that doesn’t have to be this, you don’t have to love it, you know, I’m not like, using hand sanitizer, showering in it, feeling amazing about that.

[Dennis laughs]

[28:30] Rachel: But, like, I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do, you know? Knowing that this is not forever.

Dennis: You have to weigh it out. You have to weigh it out.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: If you don’t wear a mask, everyone gets corona, what’s the worst that can happen? It can be pretty fucking bad. If everybody does wear a mask, and people get safe and then in the end, no one was supposed to wear a mask, still, the difference in the end is…

Rachel: Yeah, but of course there’s a big piece about, you know, autonomy, and personal freedom, and, there’s a lot of things that weighs into this, and I get why people are super upset. I mean the fact that, for me, the fact that Lea, Lea’s, Lea has to wear a mask for one hour and 45 minutes in school, when they’re inside. One hour and 45 minutes a day. I can’t think about the, the minutes she spends with the mask because it makes my like body retract with just, I hate it so much.

Dennis: She doesn’t care at all.

Rachel: She doesn’t give a shit, at all.

Dennis: Yeah.

[29:20] Rachel: She’s like, totally fine with it. It’s my problem, my issue, and I just had to weigh it, like, “okay, what’s more important: that she goes to school and gets to socialize and be with fiends and have a normal day, or that she stays, that she doesn’t have to wear the mask?” And I debated that and decided, for her, that for her wellbeing, the best thing is for her to be in school, and then I’m the one that has to accept that for that one hour and 45 minutes a day, she wears a mask. If I’m going to resist it and fight it, like I wouldn’t make it through my day, it would just make my day much worse if I’m walking around thinking about that, and it shouldn’t be that way, I just had to accept it, and I made the choice. I can also choose to keep her home. I can choose to not go to the restaurants that require me to wear a mask, I can choose to order takeout everyday and not go anywhere, like I can make that choice if I don’t want to follow those regulations. But I’m not going to be the asshole who wanders around town in my hemp clothing refusing hand sanitizer and refusing a mask because, I don’t know, because of what, some conspiracy theory? I don’t know, to me, that’s just, that’s just not who we are. We’re, I think you and I are like, we’re an okay middle ground.

Dennis: You think so?

Rachel: Yeah. I don’t know. Like, I mean, I, I am more vocal and, and getting upset, and, you know, talking about things that I feel are really wrong, but I also know when to shut the fuck up [laughs].

Dennis: I don’t know if that’s true, the last part.

Rachel: Don’t you think that like, you know, like Lea is in school with her mask right now, it’s 9:45, they just literally, right now, they are going in to be inside for that hour.

Dennis: And she’s…yeah.

Rachel: And she’s fine.

Dennis: She’s fine…

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: …she’s having fun with her friends, she’s going to eat lunch with her friends, she’s going to play she’s going to come home with all these cool stories about her school day.

Rachel: Right. And it’s okay. Yeah.

Dennis: Yeah. And we get to do that in this type of environment.

Rachel: Right.

Dennis: Like there’s places that schools are still shut down.

Rachel: I know, so we are super grateful that it’s open…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …and, you know. But it, it’s a hard thing to be, I guess especially, maybe in the U.S., of course there’s parts where this is more sensitive and more terrible, but there’s this feeling of, “this is going to be the new normal, this is going to be the thing where forever, we are separated, forever we are not touching, forever there is a mask.” I don’t think that…

Dennis: I don’t think that’s true.

Rachel: No, but I think people think that that’s true.

Dennis: Yeah, but I think for the next three years of my life…

[31:33] Rachel: People who think that way, like this is a government conspiracy, to trick, to take all of our autonomy away, meaning “if I surrender to having to wearing a mask, I give up my freedom and that’s the beginning of the end.” I don’t think like that. Like I really just don’t. But I understand people who might think like that would have a much harder time accepting, “okay, to go to this restaurant, you put on your masks,” you know?

Dennis: You just need to figure it out, maybe two, three years more, hopefully by then.

Rachel: [Sighs]

Dennis: Hopefully it’ll be way before, if we’re going to compare it with, with like, the, the flu in 1918, it was three years I think. Two and a half, three years.

Rachel: Yeah, it was bizarre.

Dennis: And it was a lot less people back then, a lot less traveling.

Rachel: No, the whole thing is bizarre. But for instance — I also want to make this clear on the podcast — when you come back from fucking Florida, having been, like you are taking the risk of like, “I’m going to go into a place where I know there’s a lot of corona,” like you’ve made that choice. You weighed it out, like “this is important enough for me that I want to do that.”

Dennis: And I come back, I’m going to stay at an AirBnb…

Rachel: And you’re going to come back…

Dennis: …play PlayStation for two weeks.

Rachel: …at the airport. Two weeks?! You think you’re going to fucking quarantine for two weeks? I need help with this household man [laughs].

Dennis: Oh man, I thought I really had to be serious about this.

Rachel: [Lauhging] No, you get tested at the airport, your whole group does, because there’s like ten of you, or eight of you, whatever, everyone has to…

Dennis: I think we’re less. I think we’re like, seven, maybe eight.

Rachel: You told me eight. Yeah. But if all eight of you, like you all test negative, and then you have a couple days…

Dennis: We have two rooms.

Rachel: …quarantining at an AirBnb.

Dennis: Yeah.

[32:58] Rachel: Right? Then it’s fine. But it’s not like, you know, I’m meeting you at the airport, like, you know, giving you a big kiss either, because I…I’m at the place right now where I’m not worried about us getting corona, we don’t have elderly people, or immunocompromised people in our lives right now who, you know. Like we have friends who have, who have parents here who are older, and who are really worried for their sake because they’re spending time with their parents.

Dennis: We’re not really close with our friends either, we’re not really in touch…

Rachel: We’re not hanging out…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …with anybody right now. So normally, we like don’t a lot, so that feels fine. If we would get corona, I wouldn’t freak out, that’s where I am. But I also don’t wanna give it to ourselves on fucking purpose by not giving a shit.

Dennis: You don’t want to have a corona party?

Rachel: [Laughing] I don’t want to have a corona party. I would have a chickenpox party, like that, like that’s where I’m at. Like I did when I was little, like that was not a big deal. But a corona party? No, no thank you.

[33:49 — Commercial Break]

[35:16] Rachel: But so, are you going to win Ironman?

Dennis: I always win.

Rachel: You always win.

Dennis: I just never make it to the podium.

Rachel: [Laughing] You’re always a winner to me.

Dennis: They always give me a really shiny medal.

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: It says “Participation.”

Rachel: [Laughing] What’s a, what’s a time you’re aiming for?

Dennis: Oh, I don’t know.

Rachel: Do you feel ready? Like you haven’t really trained a lot. A bit.

Dennis: If you want to go to the details…

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: I’m sure you do. The biking, I’m really ready. The swimming, I’m never really ready, but I have surfing in the back, in my past, and it’s easy. The running, I’m probably the worst I’ve been in a long time.

[35:58] Rachel: The running, you’re the worst you’ve been in a long time, yeah. Okay, well I, I feel okay. Lea and I are going to have girl’s time at home. We’re going to miss you, and I really hope you don’t get coronavirus. I’m more, can I tell you, like honest truth? I am more concerned about you being there over the election, than I am…

Dennis: Yeah?

Rachel: …you being there in a corona wave, yeah. Like I don’t know, I just feel like there’s a lot of unrest, I mean there is a lot of unrest, and I have this feeling like if, if Biden wins, there’s going to be like a riot from all the Trump supporters, if Trump wins, there’s going to be a riot because of everybody else. Like I just have a feeling like this is not going to be the election where people just calmly sit down and accept the result, you know? Especially if it’s close, or if there’s a controversy…

Dennis: I feel like that…

Rachel: …of course there’s going to be a controversy.

Dennis: …always. I feel like it’s like that always. Like it’s always like people are ride or die, right before the election, and then as soon as the election’s over, it’s like, “oh, fuck, okay.”

Rachel: Yeah, but it’s not.

Dennis: And then someone…

Rachel: 2020, after four years of Trump? After having 200 000 plus people die from this pandemic? Black Lives Matter protests, like so many people out of a job, like there’s unrest, people are not…

Dennis: Isn’t like the, the, the thing that they do is like whenever one of the candidates lose, they come and make a speech, like, “okay, this happened, now we have to move forward…”

[37:23] Rachel: I don’t know, like you have to move forward, I mean, I don’t know. Like even Trump as he won the election, wouldn’t accept the results. But like, the electoral college like is what made hime the election, like wouldn’t accept it, you know? There was fraud, voter fraud, I don’t know why he was fighting it. I don’t know, can you promise to like, not that it’s going to be like a civil war or something, I just, I just want you to get home safe.

Dennis: Okay.

Rachel: Okay.

Dennis: Okay.

Rachel: And win.

Dennis: If it, if it’s, if it happens, I already won.

Rachel: If it happens, you already won. Okay, let’s get back to our couples intimacy course, cause this, I think, is much more interesting than Ironman. No offense Ironman.

Dennis: None taken.

Rachel: None taken.

Dennis: Is it like an outer course, or is it more like an…

[Rachel laughs]

Dennis: …inner work course? Or like…

Rachel: If I, I can’t even explain to you guys have many intercourse jokes Dennis has made in the past week since we started this…

Dennis: Inner course.

Rachel: [Laughing] It’s a course where you do inner work.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: Are you going to use three words or two?

Rachel: So every time I text him like, “are you ready for the course?” And he goes, “inter?”

Dennis: Inner.

Rachel: Dot dot dot, question mark?

Dennis: It’s always inner.

Rachel: Inner, inner course? [Laughs] Are you, how, what’s happening in this course, so far?

Dennis: I don’t think we’re allowed to talk about it.

Rachel: We’re allowed to talk about our experience, we don’t talk about like…

Dennis: Oh.

Rachel: …other people’s sharing their stories and stuff.

Dennis: It’s good.

Rachel: So there’s like 25 people in the group, or something, twenty-something people in the group, and you’ve been talking about your feelings.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah, how’s that going?

Dennis: Good.

[39:00] Rachel: [Laughs] Okay, this is what we started the show with.

[Dennis laughing]

Rachel: So in this course, the only like little heads up I’ve given to Dennis is when you do this kind of work and then the facilitator might, at some point ask you, “so how does this make you feel?” You know, which is just an inquiry for you to go into the body and like go, “hmm, yeah.” And then if you say, “yeah, good,” good is like a blanket statement that doesn’t really explain anything, and it doesn’t mean that you have to look inside and actually feel. So then she probably would go, “and good means?”

Dennis: Well.

Rachel: And then Dennis has, he’s like, “oh, I have 50 different variations of good I can, I can bring you,” I’m like, “dude, the point is to like, take a breath and feel; when you say ‘good, oh it makes me feel relief,’ or, ‘yeah, it makes me feel supported,’ or, ‘yeah, it makes me feel like it makes me feel like it’s not the big a deal,’ or, ‘I feel more spacious inside,’ or something like that.”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And Dennis will go, “well, great, fine, fantastic, wonderful.”

[both laughing]

Rachel: Like those things don’t mean anything.

Dennis: Hardest part for me is, is the sharing.

Rachel: Mm-hmm.

Dennis: It’s nice to be able to talk to other people that have so much on common as well, or that are going through the same things as you are.

Rachel: And nice means?

Dennis: Great.

Rachel: [Laughing] It’s nice talking to people, okay, who resonate, and you’re like, “yeah.”

Dennis: Yeah, but then you have to do this for ten minutes, and I felt like when I did this, I shared my whole life story. You know, ten minutes is not a long time, it goes by really fast. So I’m sharing my whole life story, I tell every single detail of my whole life, and then I still have like, eight and a half minutes…

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: …to go, and I have no clue what to say.

[40:35] Rachel: [Laughing] I don’t understand, like what you are saying in this, in this…

Dennis: For me, it was like in-depth detail.

Rachel: [Laughing] Something…

Dennis: And then we have to do this a couple of times day.

Rachel: So the course has like, it’s online, and you have meditations and videos and exercises and stuff that you do, and then once a week, there’s a big live session with the whole group, and once a week, you have a sharing in a smaller group…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …and then every time you have a sharing, so there might be three people there, and then Dennis, you told me yesterday that like no one wants to be the first one to go, and after awhile you just like, you just jump and you go first…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …and I was like, “what? You’re the first one in your group to start your emotional sharing? That really surprises me.” And he went, “yeah, but that’s because a whole minute already passed, so then I only have to do seven minutes instead of eight.”

Dennis: Yeah, I take…

Rachel: Score. [Laughs]

Dennis: “Fuck it, you guys don’t want to go? That’s my minute.”

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: Because they’re like a, a countdown clock for, for yesterday’s session in particular, like when you’re divided in groups, we were in a group of three, and then everybody got eight minutes or something, so you see the time on the top, it’s 24.

Rachel: Because you have three people, yeah.

Dennis: Yeah. So like, around 23 minutes, or 22, you know…

Rachel: Something. No one’s talking.

Dennis: Something, nobody’s talking, like, “okay, I’ll go.”

Rachel: “That minute’s mine.”

Dennis: Yeah.

[42:00] Rachel: [Laughing] And then, but then how do you feel afterwards? I mean, sharing is always a, like getting, being vulnerable, honest, truthful for people who just hold space for you to speak, that’s a, can be a really challenging thing.

Dennis: It’s hard. The therapy I took last year really helped, because in the beginning of it, I couldn’t talk at all, I wouldn’t know what to say and they have to ask questions every time for me to start talking. And I’m someone that just, I’m a guy of few words, so it’s really hard for me to like start, like you can just talk, no problem; you have a podcast, you can do it every day.

Rachel: I have Mercury in Libra.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: You have Mercury in Pisces.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: Sure.

Rachel: Sure.

Dennis: And that’s why I can’t say anything. And I have no air, what was it?

Rachel: You have no air in your chart.

Dennis: Yeah, which is also talking.

Rachel: So, so I, we decided to do this course, and me in like, true Rachel fashion decided to start three online courses at the same time. So I’m currently doing a kundalini course, an advanced astrology course and this course together. But the astrology course really works well with this intimacy and communication course, yeah.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: But Mercury is how you communicate. And I have Mercury in Libra, so it’s an air sign, and air is communication, so I’m super talkative and fair, and, you know, really inclusive in how I speak and all of these kinds of things. And you can Lea both have Mercury in Pisces, and you also have no air in your chart, so you’re like a non-communicative…

[43:32] Dennis: Does she have air?

Rachel: Huh?

Dennis: Does Lea have air?

Rachel: Yeah, she has air. She has, she has a good balance, actually, in her chart. Mostly water, but some air. But you have no air, so you’re like not a talking kind of person.

Dennis: Nope.

[both laugh]

Dennis: So to answer your question, it’s kind of hard. It’s a release of some sort, and it’s kind of nice to like, be able to talk to, like I always thought these courses were like, I would be there, the normal guy, and then there would be like a lot of like, people, like in space, like floating a little bit, and…

Rachel: What’s the kind person is that? Like what’s the kind of person you think…

Dennis: The stereotypical like…

Rachel: …does, yeah, like who’s the stereotypical, yeah.

Dennis: …cult hippie…

Rachel: Are you talking about like, Wild Wild Country?

Dennis: Yeah, I’m like…

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: …to start off, I was surprised that we didn’t have to wear orange.

Rachel: [Laughing] This is like, this course is like…

Dennis: So anyone who wants to do a course with…

Rachel: …led by like renowned, amazing psychologists, you know, who work with this like, 30 years, it’s like fantastic. Okay, so you were surprised there were normal people in the course, basically.

Dennis: Normal, normal, normal people.

Rachel: That a lot of people are in the course, any they’re just like you.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. You were disappointed by that. You told me yesterday…

Dennis: No, no, no, I was pleasantly surprised.

Rachel: No, you told me yesterday, “I was hoping the other people would…”

Dennis: No, I thought it was…

Rachel: You thought.

Dennis: Yeah. I was hoping that, I was hoping that some of the other people have done more work before, so I was going to be the newbie, like…

Rachel: Yeah, that’s what I didn’t understand; why would you want to be the newbie?

Dennis: Because…

Rachel: I thought you would be excited other people also never done sharings before, for instance.

[45:02] Dennis: It gives you some level of comfort, I agree with that, but I feel to get the most out of this course is like if I was like, like super newbie, and everyone was like super experienced, have done this. I thought people have done this type of work before, I think, I thought people were like you, that this is like their sixth or seventh course, you know? And, because there’s a couple of times I felt like I didn’t know what to do, and then I ask the other, like people I’m sharing with, and they wouldn’t know what to do either, so I’m like…

Rachel: What is it that you didn’t know what to do?

Dennis: And I’m like, “oh, are we doing it the wrong way, are we doing it the right way?” You know, it’s…I guess there’s no wrong way.

Rachel: But tell me, what’s the thing you didn’t know? Like, in terms of like, how to…

Dennis: No, I can’t remember. It was like, I had a couple of questions and no one…in several different groups, it was, everyone was kind of…yeah.

Rachel: Yeah, but that’s also…it’s interesting, it’s interesting to me having led so many groups in person, and now it’s online.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: You know, how to mimic the intimacy, and the closeness, and to get the same level of opening, it’s a really totally different thing.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And it’s much harder online, of course, because it’s easier to check out. Like it’s easier to not be present…

Dennis: You’re in your comfort space.

Rachel: Yeah. And all you have to do is like kind of, you know, look away and you don’t see the person anymore because they’re not there in front of you, they’re on a screen. But it’s also really cool, I think, to have the ability to do it at home, and imagine if you were doing this right now, like sharing a bunk bed with someone in some communal hall, you know, because you’re doing it in a group, in person…

[46:33] Dennis: No, I think it’s good and bad. Not bad, but like it has the pros and cons. Like the pro now is like I can go into a course like this and still feel safe at home. And maybe the con from that is then I would not have open as much as if I was in that commune home. But if I was in the commune home, I would have been like, scared.

Rachel: You would have been way out of your comfort zone, yeah.

Dennis: Yeah

[47:00 — Commercial Break]

[48:44] Rachel: So why are you doing the course?

Dennis: You made me do it.

Rachel: [Laughing] Shut up! Stop it! What is your intention with the course, why are you doing the course?

Dennis: I wrote it down, I can’t remember.

Rachel: Like we started week two, so you need to have like some, some connection to like, why are you doing this course?

Dennis: My main…

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: …my main reason for doing this is to have a better connection with you. Like it’s not, like I heard your intention was like to work more on yourself and to go inside and stuff, maybe I’ll get to the place someday, but for me it’s like, okay, I wanna, I wanna be closer to you.

Rachel: I want to be closer with you too.

[Dennis laughs]

[49:27] Rachel: And you sharing your intention in that, there’s a lot of couples in the course, so I think a lot of people are there for the couple, for the relationship, and that’s also how I started, like we, we communicate in different ways, like that’s basically why we want to do this course. Like my communication is more verbal, like…

Dennis: Fiery.

Rachel: …fiery, and also how I connect and find intimacy is through communication, and you’re a physical person, like you want closeness in that way, and sometimes we miss each other because we approach things in different ways…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …you know? Where I’m like, you know, you just want to like, lie on the couch and spoon and hug, and I’m like, “dude, we didn’t talk all day, tell me how you’re feeling.”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And it’s like, we miss each other there. And you’re like, “what do you mean? This is how I’m telling you how I’m feeling,” and I don’t get that.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: And I know for a lot of people, for a lot of couples, it is similar in that way, just because we relate in different ways. And it’s interesting to, to me to, to really understand you in those ways, because we are different. But at the same time, when I actually started doing the work and I realized, “yeah, this is, of course, it’s not like I’m just here for you, you know, it’s like, just like they said in the course yesterday that this is a personal, individual journey, and then you take what you find and you bring it into the relationship, right?

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: So I want to explore my, my issues with intimacy, where I’m challenged around intimacy, where it’s hard for me to be vulnerable. And a cool thing I just realized was that because I teach this stuff, because I’m in this field as a teacher, and I’ve been doing this for so many years, and done so many groups, it conveniently puts me a little bit on the outside. Like I create the connections in the group, but I’m not in the group…

[51:03] Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …all the time. So I’m already learning a lot about, about myself, and I hope, I hope in the end, we are closer. Because we’ve been together fucking eleven years.

Dennis: Almost.

Rachel: Almost. That’s crazy.

Dennis: April will be eleven.

Rachel: That’s crazy.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: That’s a lot of time.

Dennis: It’s a good run.

Rachel: [Laughs] Call it a day.

[Denis laughs]

Rachel: Done.

[Slapping noise]

Rachel: [Laughing] Okay, so to close, by the time this episode is out, you’re going to be in Florida.

Dennis: Yep.

Rachel: It’s election week. It’s November, you know, we’re getting close to the end of 2020. Do you have any wishes for the end of the year?

Dennis: Oh…why do you always have to ask these kinds of hard questions?

Rachel: [Laughing] Like we’re closing this really long and challenging year…was this a long and challenging year for you? Like…

Dennis: It was a year of a lot of looking inwards. If that makes any sense.

Rachel: Like inner?

Dennis: Like inner work.

[Rachel laughing]

[52:04] Dennis: No, I don’t know, it’s, it’s, it’s depending how you, how you rephrase the, how you ask the question. Locally, like it’s been one of the hardest years we’ve ever gone through in Aruba. Our business in Aruba is for sure suffering, we’re not, because of all these regulations, we can’t even operate normally, and maybe it’s not safe to be able to operate normally, to be in a yoga shala with 50 people, that’s just not allowed. So we’re only allowed to have 14, I think, and we’re just not breaking even, we’re just going deeper and deeper red in our Aruban business. So in that sense, you know, it’s, it’s been a hard year; we don’t know what to do, we don’t know if we’re going to lay off people, we don’t know, you know, it’s, like, it, it, it’s hard. All those people are going through things too. But if you talk to me on a personal level, I feel this year, I developed a lot. Learned a lot of new things about ourselves, how we react under very stressful situations. A lot of anxiety; there was times that we got anxieties, I think we tried to get, people tried to sue us three times this year…

Rachel: [Laughing] Yeah, we have never talked about that on the podcast.

Dennis: No? No, but it’s something that happens, it’s like people are in such a space that they’re just grasping for what they can grasp, you know?

Rachel: We saw, we saw the results of a lot of people getting totally desperate.

Dennis: Yeah, and, and you can always put yourself in those people’s shoes, and you can understand it, but it fucking sucks to be on the other end of it. So, you know, a lot of things happened, but at the same time, a lot of good came with it too.

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, we were for sure, like for months, in a vortex where I felt like, “man, we need to like sage our lives, we need protection somehow; we need…” it was almost like somehow we had somehow a channel open for really horrible, negative stuff.

[54:04] Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: it was like one thing after another, and the legal stuff I never brought to the podcast just because…yeah.

Dennis: It’s not to talk about.

Rachel: Not just that, but it was like, some things were super personal, some things was just drama that was like, “I can’t even believe, I’m not going to give this one ounce of my attention…”

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: “…because it doesn’t actually concern me, it’s someone trying to, to steal from us, or take advantage of us,” and actually the moment I didn’t give it attention, it went away.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: So I’m, I’m glad we didn’t make that a huge thing. But we had a person like extort us this year. Like we had crazy fucking stuff come our way. So it’s been, at the same time, you and I going through all of this intense stuff together, like having our, each other’s backs, like that feeling has been…because sometimes I feel like I’m alone doing the things I do, and then you’re alone doing what you do, and then, like we’ve been very, very, very together in all the stuff that’s come our way.

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: So…and I feel now the fact that like, you’re going to Ironman in the middle of a challenging time, and I really feel like I’m glad you’re going, I feel I’m happy that you’re doing this for your self-care. Eventually, some sort of regular life has to resume, like…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel …you know, we have to try to find a way to exist in the world the way it is. And at the same time, we are taking this huge step together, like doing this out of your comfort zone like course on intimacy, like that for me is like a huge thing for you…

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: …and me, and I’m really, really happy, I’m really grateful that…

[55:33] Dennis: Hold on, it’s week one, okay?

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: Let’s talk in two weeks.

Rachel: We started week two just now, like week two [laughing] has begin. But basically that I love you so much.

Dennis: Oh, thank you.

Rachel: Fuck you. I love you, and fuck you, okay?

[Dennis laughing]

Rachel: Do you want to close the show?

Dennis: Oh, do I have to? Okay, yeah. Can you write it for me again?

Rachel: So usually…

Dennis: I can’t remember…

Rachel: Usually, at the end of a show, I ask, “how can we all be of service to you?” Like that’s something that I like to ask the quest, like what’s something all of our listeners, all of us listening right now can do, can do for you? And sometimes the person has like a personal thing, like, “go to my website!”

Dennis: Oh, yeah, you can plug something, huh?

Rachel: Sometimes they want to plug something, sometimes it’s like, a guest who, who, who just asks you to take good care fo yourself, or go vote, or, you know, there’ll be more of like a collective like thing.

Dennis: Yeah, well I can’t tell people to go vote because voting already happened, and by then we already know who…

Rachel: No, but really, like if everyone listening could do something for you, you know, or be of service somehow, like what would they do? What would you ask?

Dennis: I don’t have a good Yoga Girl punchline there.

Rachel: What about a Dennis from Salad punchline?

Dennis: Stay classy San Diego, kind of thing?

Rachel: [Laughing] Okay, that’s it. Stay classy everyone.

Dennis: No, I don’t know. Like I wish I could tell people what they needed to hear, or what we need to do for this world.

[57:01] Rachel: What do you, what do you think is something that’s going to make the world a better place, or make people feel better this week?

Dennis: This week?

Rachel: Yeah, this week of just stuff happening the way it is, corona, election, unrest, what’s something people can do to feel better?

Dennis: I…I have no good advice. Like Dennis advice would be like, “peace and love, let’s all try to get along,” but then you will get the other, not another side, you will get a side like, “no, fuck that, it’s time to stand up and fight this fight,” or close, you know? And I agree with that, but at the same time, I’m like “why can’t we just get along?” [Laughs]

Rachel: Well what do you do to feel better?

Dennis: What do I do to feel better?

Rachel: Mm-hmm, when you’re having a bad time, or a bad day, like what's something that helps you feel better?

Dennis: I run, I bike.

Rachel: Okay.

Dennis: So tell everyone to go run and bike?

Rachel: Yeah.

Dennis: Go run and bike.

Rachel: Or you can tell everyone to like…

Dennis: Move your body.

Rachel: Yay, there you go!

Dennis: You're really trying to like, fish it out, huh?

Rachel: I’m trying to fish it out of you, because…

[both laughing]

Rachel: …you, you, you, this is why you don't have your own podcast. Like you have your nuggets of wisdom, but they need to be, like, pulled out. Move your body.

Dennis: I’m like a hype man…

[Rachel laughing]

Dennis: …I only know how to go like [music noses] on the side.

[Rachel laughing]

[58:16] Dennis: No, so for me, what I like to do any times I’m feeling like, shitty, is like, “I need to move my body.” I'm not a person that like talks, like you need to talk and like process and do it together; in that case, I’m very selfish, so I always need to like, process on my own. So if I can give an advice, if you have availability to do so, try to process on your own. If that means a long walk, a long walk in nature, if you don’t have nature, a long walk in the city, I don't know. Just try to like, move, go out of your comfort zone, and don't bring anything with you. Just bring your mind, that's it. That's all I can say.

Rachel: Don’t bring anything with you. That’s a good spiritual, spiritual lesson for the ending of this. You don’t need anything.

Dennis: Patent pending.

[Rachel laughing]

Rachel: You mean you want to like, copyright that quote? [Laughing]

Dennis: Yeah.

Rachel: [Laughing] Patent pending. Okay, I guess.

[Dennis laughing]

Rachel: Thank you so much for coming on the show, I love you. Stay very safe in Florida, okay? Don't get corona. And…

Dennis: The only one I’ll get is the one with the lime inside.

Rachel: Yeah, drink, drink corona, don’t get corona. And have the best time.

Dennis: Thank you.

Rachel: I’ll see you online in the course, in the sharing circles.

Dennis: Okay.

Rachel: So, we’ll talk.

Dennis: And I'll see you like, in what, five, six months again on the show?

[Rachel laughing]

Rachel: Yeah, maybe. Thank you guys so much for listening and for bearing with us. I hope you have a good rest of the week, and Yoga Girl podcast will be back next week.

[59:50 — End of Episode]