[0:59] Rachel: Welcome to a brand new episode of the Yoga Girl podcast. I hope wherever you are in the world listening to this, you are safe and feeling at peace in this moment. I am very excited today because I have a very special guest on this show. I don't know how to introduce him other than, uh, this is my baby daddy, [laughs] my husband, my partner since 10 years.
Dennis: It’s true.
Rachel: Dennis Schoneveld, welcome to the show.
Dennis: Why thank you.
Rachel: How are you doing?
Dennis: I’m doing okay. Doing pretty well.
Rachel: Yeah, just okay?
Rachel: This — I don't know if you know — but this podcast is called From the Heart.
Rachel: So if you were to speak completely from the heart in this moment, how are you doing really?
Dennis: At this moment? Pretty content.
Dennis: I would say. If you asked me yesterday or tomorrow, that might be different, but as of right now, I’m okay. I'm good.
Rachel: You’re okay. Today is day 19 of our isolation.
Dennis: And day 3650 of our relationship.
Rachel: Really? You counted that?
Dennis: No, ten times 365 isn't it?
Dennis: There’s a couple of leap years in there. Maybe two, two, yeah?
Rachel: Two leap years in there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dennis: So add two days.
Rachel: So before we go into like…so today is our 10 year anniversary, which is a big deal, but it doesn't feel like a big deal because we're an isolation and the world is like, on pause. I mean, it's still a big deal.
[2:32] Dennis: Well, we are going to do something huge tonight.
Dennis: I’m thinking like something really romantic, but not go out loud, you know, just stay home.
Rachel: Oh yeah? Just stay home? Are you predicting that we'll stay home?
Dennis: I think we'll stay home, for a change.
Rachel: [laughs] Like a week ago I was like, “hey, it's our anniversary. Our 10 years, like next week!” He's like, “Hmm.” I’m like, “what are we going to do?” “Um, I think we're going to be home.”
Rachel: That's like for indefinite future. You think we're going to be home. But we'll get into that a little bit later because we got a lot of questions on social media. We have a lot of couple-y stuff people are asking. But for this pandemic, like this whole situation, social isolation, it's day 19. How has it been for you overall? Like these weeks?
Dennis: We’ve been keeping busy so…
Rachel: With what?
Dennis: Well I'm building a fence, a five feet tall fence for your garden so that the dogs won't poop close to it anymore. I started surfing back, I usually only surf in Costa Rica, I never surf in Aruba, and since the pandemic I started surfing again.
Rachel: Every day?
Dennis: Every day, or I try to do something every day. I lost complete hope in the triathlon since all the races got canceled. I just stopped doing it altogether.
Rachel: Did that happen so quickly, also?
Dennis: It just…yeah.
Rachel: Like Dennis went from like every single day biking, running, swimming, like training, mostly biking and running everyday, like without break, and then they announced like “the Iron Man is off,” and you did not go back to the gym. [laughs]
[4:07] Dennis: I didn’t do anything. I immediately quit.
Rachel: You were like, “hand me a beer please.”
Dennis: Yeah, no, I need, I need something to…races-wise, I need something to look forward to. If I don't have anything to look forward to, then I don't see the point. Basically.
Rachel: Really? But isn’t the point to like stay healthy and…
Dennis: It is, but there's always like, like I'm not of a hardcore trainer, but I always need it like, like a goal. I always need it to like, go somewhere. And I usually use running to, to process, like if we're fighting or if something is going on at home, I usually run for an hour or something and then I come back completely like lifted, happy and everything, and I just can't even get myself to go running. I don't, I don't see the point. But I got to go back to an old love of mine, which is surfing, which is also nice.
Rachel: Yeah. And I really like that. Like if you weren’t…I know today I was, I asked Dennis to not surf in the afternoon because it's our 10 year anniversary and we want to try and do something. But um, if you weren't surfing, I would be worried about you.
Rachel: Like, like you had one of your lowest days was, I don't know, five days ago, or a couple days ago.
Rachel: It was…like you overall, because you are a very calm kind of ground…like I am the one who thinks the world is going to end even when the world isn't ending.
[5:30] Rachel: What’s that like, to live with that?
Dennis: To live, to live with you? You mean?
Rachel: [laughs] Yeah. Especially, no, when you know, “no, it's fine.”
Dennis: You’ve been calm for the last like four or five days, but before that it's been really difficult. I'm really trying to buy all the beans there is in all the supermarkets, and all the canned tomatoes, even though I don't think we need it, like all those stuff.
Rachel: We're almost out of all of it, by the way. [laughs]
Dennis: No, we have them. We had to start storing at the studio because we don't have space at our home to store it. We have like, I think ten frozen soups that we're probably gonna donate quite soon to the food bank because I'm sure we're never going to eat them.
Rachel: Why would we not eat them? This has been the most calming thing for me. Okay. You're making it sound like we are, like, hoarding food. We're not hoarding food.
Dennis: We’re not…well, we’re doomsday prepping .
Rachel: We’re not doomsday. We have dry, we have rice, dried beans and big cans of tomato.
Dennis: I think we have easily like 150 pounds worth of rice, easy.
[6:32] Rachel: Dude, I counted: we have 27 kilos of rice.
Dennis: Isn’t that like 600 pounds or something?
Rachel: No! 27 kilos of pounds? We have, we've got, we got one 23 bag, 23 kilo bag. That was like the most calming thing ever for me. Just to have one of those bags from, from the big Costco here.
Rachel: I mean we have food. Like knowing we'll be okay for easily three months like, that calmed me a lot, and then being able to cook something everyday that I'm freezing, and now we're storing the soups at the studio because the studio freezer is on. So that's also like, calming me. But I mean, for me in the beginning it was really, really hard for me because you were so relaxed. So the moments I had when I was spinning off the earth, like where I really went…we thought Lea Luna had coronavirus, we had to go to the epicenter of coronavirus testing in Aruba, and the week before and following that was just horrible, like horrible.
Dennis: That’s the thing. I was never worried about us, like our family. I was never, never really worried about that at all. My, uh, most of my worries were business-related and staff-related, knowing that we have staff, that they have their own family, they have to take care of their own stuff, and we were…the whole world I guess is forced to close doors, and that means we don't have any, like any revenue coming in. Thats means that we won't be able to make ends meet when it comes to them. And the support that the government is trying to do in Aruba is like, it's, it's great that they're trying, but we're literally talking, you know, 470 bucks a month per person, which is just really sad.
[8:08] Rachel: Per legal working person.
Dennis: Per person that have a legal working permit. In our case, we have one or two that their permits are in process, but they're not finalized yet. So they're not, they're not eligible to get these help from the government, you know? And that's really sad.
Rachel: And it's scary too. I mean there's a lot of people who don't have papers who live on the island. They estimate what 10 or 15% of the actual population is not, you know. It's people from Venezuela, Colombia…
Dennis: They're allowed to be here now though.
Rachel: …Dominican Republic. I mean they are not allowed to leave, so yeah.
Dennis: The government said that everyone without a paper, everyone that is not legal on the island, don't worry, you don't have to look over your shoulder. Cops won't take you
Rachel: Kind of, yeah. But…
Dennis: But yeah, they don’t have a way to…
Rachel: …they’re not going to get welfare, they're not going to get that support.
Dennis: …they don't have a way to make…
Dennis: But that’s another story.
Rachel: Yeah. But I think that's kind of the, I think the difference between you and me is when there’s not a global pandemic, you feel like kind of safe and cool and grounded. And I almost always have this feeling of, “I don't know if we're safe.” Like it's the old trauma that I'm working through. And just fear of death, fear of something happening to Lea, fear of all this kind of stuff. And then now the pandemic. The first two weeks of us really pen…like when it got really bad here, it was horrible.
[9:26] Dennis: Yeah, we fixed the alarm. You installed security cameras, like we did all the security stuff to make sure that everyone feels secure and safe.
Rachel: Yeah. You're in the neighborhood watch, like they're expecting crime to go up, way up. We had…and that’s the thing…
Dennis: I was always in that watch, you just didn't know it.
Rachel: I had no idea it existed. I'm like, “why do we need neighborhood watch? It's like the safest, safest country ever,” and now we need it.
Dennis: Our street especially.
Rachel: Our street, we live on a dead end street, like there no one here. But just that, just…and you came with that, you were like, “hey, I think I'm going to, uh, I'm going to activate our alarm and go buy some security cameras.” And I was like, “what? Why?”
Dennis: No you…[laughs]…the cameras? Yeah, but the alarm, you were like, you were telling me about it.
Rachel: Because you told me like a year, like in the neighborhood watch group, they're experiencing new crime and on the street away there's a lot of break-ins and stuff.
Dennis: Well it’s just common sense. If no one has a way…
Rachel: I didn’t think about that, at all.
Dennis: But if no one has a way to make money, people are going to be forced to do things to be able to take care of their families. It’s sad…
Rachel: Yeah, and that's horrible.
Dennis: I think it's going to happen all over the world.
[10:32] Rachel: Yeah, no, I know. But even…because when you did that, that was the first time that I thought, “but wait,” like I didn’t…my brain didn't go that far into the future. You know like there's, there might be a scenario here where yeah, looting happens and crime goes way up and all these stores are closed and you know, things could get really, really bad. But then the moment we got that, because we had an alarm system that we activated after we had a, a couple of stalkers…
Dennis: A walk in.
Rachel: We had a walk in and we had a few stalker incidents a couple years back where I couldn't sleep after that. And then we had the alarm, and a couple of months later I got over it and then we stopped using it. Like we used that alarm system for three months or something. So activating that now, that helped me just feel calm, like, at night. No, you know, we don't have…we don't even have a fenced in like property here, like where we live. So it's also if someone wants to walk in, they literally could in the back.
Dennis: In the back, but not anymore. It's pretty, I think we live really secure. I don't think you have anything to worry there.
Rachel: That’s stuff that I don't think about. But so when you were in that kind of sense, I was in like, “what happens if they stop exporting food to Aruba? Like I need to grow all the vegetables now. We need to have like rice and beans and basic stuff.” And…
Dennis: But yeah, coming back to that, like you and me, we have so much options. We have family all over the world. We're fine.
Rachel: Super fine. Yeah. But that's what I mean.
Dennis: I was never worried about that.
Rachel: No you were not. But I, I had this feeling of “I don't know if we're going to be okay.” And then I had my mind was telling me that I'm stupid. Like I shouldn't freeze food. I shouldn't be, we don't need like 23 kilos of rice. Like that's ridiculous. But the moment we did that, I could calm down. And when I calm down, now I can suddenly like look for ways to be of service, and we can start helping the community in different ways. Like you can't help anybody else when you in a frenzy of “are we going to die?” So that's why, I mean I’m, that you're sensing that the past what five, six days I am more chill.
Dennis: Yeah, you’re more relaxed.
[12:24] Rachel: But in the beginning, that was what someone asked that also, “how do you, what is it like for you to be in a, in a relationship with someone who, who is so different, like in a crisis?” You and I have very different approaches to crises, crisis. Yeah.
Dennis: Food-wise, you need to be in control. I feel like you have something that relates into food. I dunno if it's from the past or like, the insecurity around food. I, that's something I couldn't, I can't understand yet what's going on there. I never had, I never had that trauma. I never had the, like, thinking of what we're going to eat next because otherwise we're not going to have it. So I think that's the biggest difference between us, I would say.
Rachel: Yeah. There was definitely a moment, like in the first week where I was like, “I want you to freak out now. Like, I want you to get on my level of panic for just a moment.”
Dennis: I freaked out one day.
Rachel: Yeah. And then it came and then I was like, “okay, cool. He feels he feels stuff, like it's not just me, I'm not crazy.”
Dennis: No, we got an unforeseen issue, a financial issue, and I had everything kind of figured out for our employees, like our Aruban team, and then all of a sudden we got hit and then I, I couldn't see the solution, and then I really freaked out that it was like one day of like worst case scenario.
Rachel: Like pacing…
Dennis: Nothing to do with food, but like…
Rachel: No, no. Yeah, you’re…and then…and you got so low, so depressed. It was like three o'clock you're like, “yeah, I think…I think I'm just going to…like when I put Lea to bed, I'm just going to go to bed and wait for tomorrow to come.” I was like, “dude, it's 3:00 PM, you have half of today left.” And I was like, “why don't you go for a run?” Like that's what helps you when you're really low is that you got to move, and you're like, “I can't move. I'm depressed. I can't move.” You haven’t…like why, why don’t you run?
[14:09] Dennis: I can't, I don't know. I just can't.
Rachel: Should I…should I do what you used to do to me for the Iron Man training, like put your shoes by the treadmill and…?
Dennis: A treadmill is not even an option if I go run. That's the nice thing about Aruba, still we have a…we are in quarantine, but you're still allowed to go for individual sports. You can still like do, you can still go biking outside if you would like, you can still…
Rachel: You can walk your dog.
Dennis: …you can walk your dog on the North shore, you can go for a run. You can…
Rachel: But you can't congregate. Like you can't be with other people. If they catch you with…in a group, you're screwed. You can be alone. You can social distance while you're out.
Dennis: The famous Aruban word that the prime minister has been using a lot is “aglomera,” which I never knew what it means. It's like to gather, to put, but uh, maybe it's an English word too, but uh, like in the, in Caribbean [inaudible] English, you would say “agglomerate,”
Dennis: “They be agglomerating over there.”
Rachel: Aren’t you agglomerating when you're surfing, like how much space do you keep between each other?
Dennis: I don't know. Like 30 feet, 50 feet?
Rachel: Okay. That's a lot.
Dennis: That’s…we’re not even close.
Rachel: But what if like, if you pee in the ocean, what if someone who has coro…like how, wait, how many people are you surfing? It's just the two of you, three of you.
Dennis: Normally it's two or three. Three at the most. And we're the only ones there too. And there is no one in the beach. It's completely deserted. I don't know if you can get it through pee.
[15:38] Rachel: I don't know.
Dennis: I think that was more of like a fetish, sexual question.
Rachel: Someone texted me like a…like it was like a surfer’s magazine article about like if you're surfing close to a sewage outlet or something, there's like an elevated 2% risk that you could get corona from being in the ocean or something like that. And I'm like, “well we don't have that.”
Dennis: We don't, and we have a lot of currents.
Rachel: Oh man, but dude, I really feel like we are in a…like today's a good day, like for sure. The baby slept an extra hour…like the baby's so happy, like she's in her happiest time. I don't think she's ever been…this is like the best time of her life, I feel.
Rachel: No one is stressing…
Dennis: She’s really good on her own.
Rachel: So good on her own.
Rachel: Wakes up in the morning and just plays on her own. Sometimes I'm like, “where is she?” And I don't worry when it gets quiet it means that she's pretend napping, or she's drawing or she, she likes to find like all tiny little toys and put them from one little container to another container and like she's just…she’s a Pisces. She's very good. She's a good indoor kid.
Dennis: And she likes to swim too. We have the pool here so she gets to swim. We have it really good.
Rachel: We have it like…it’s a dream.
Rachel: Yeah. It’s a dream. Once, once our corona scare of her…cause that for me was like, I would not, I was not okay. That was not, not at all okay. But I mean once we passed that and now also doing the 30 days of free yoga challenge that we're doing, it's giving purpose. Like you're in charge of equipment and everyday we're doing a live…
Dennis: We’re working every day.
[17:05] Rachel: We're working a lot, like there's a lot of purpose in our day. So I feel…I had a moment or like a week where I felt like, “I’m almost ashamed that we have it so, okay. Like the sun shines every day. We are not in a tiny apartment in a big city somewhere where we can't even like be in the street. Imagine having, like if we were in a tiny, tiny, tiny space right now, this would be so different. So in one sense…
Dennis: One of the big cities in Spain or Italy, you know…
Rachel: …or anywhere. Yeah. Even in the States and in New York city right now.
Dennis: Yeah, that must be awful.
Rachel: No. So massive. You know, we're definitely recognizing our blessings and our gratitude. Oh yeah. By a thousand. But what I think is, is really, really, I mean what do you think is going to be the outcome? Like can you see a positive happening coming out of the whole pandemic? Like when this is over?
Dennis: All I can do is look at past experiences. Like the last really big one was what, 1918? I don't want to like pull number out of my ass, but I think two or 3 million people died then, that converts to 220 million people for today's population. And I don't think we’re, I don't think we're near — I hope, I'm knocking on wood — I don't think we're near that type of pandemic to be honest.
Rachel: Jesus, no, that…wait, how many million people?
[18:26] Dennis: I think you can, you can look it up, I think it’s two…
Rachel: It infected 500 million people.
Dennis: But two to three million people died.
Rachel: “The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 to 50 million, possibly…”
Dennis: Oh, sorry.
Rachel: “…as high as 100 million people making it the deadliest pandemic in human history.”
Dennis: But if you convert that into today's numbers…
Dennis: …I think it said it was like around 200 to 300 million. Like if you would convert that…
Rachel: If you convert the population, like percentage, yeah.
Dennis: …like if it would be today.
Rachel: This is the Spanish flu, yeah. Wait, are you, you're, I have not even been on this Wikipedia page.
Dennis: I’ve been like looking at past experiences and how it happened and stuff, and I don't know man. We have all the, we have a lot more technology compared to we have then, we have all the communications we have….I don't think it's going to be that bad. Like of course people are going to die and it's really sad, but it’s…I really hope, and I really don't think it's going to be as bad as the 1918 flu.
Rachel: I mean, no, I think this is like miles and miles and miles and miles away. Jesus. This made me nervous…
Dennis: For the…
Rachel: …reading this Wikipedia page. I don't think you can…are there articles out there relating this pandemic with that pandemic? No.
Dennis: They're both influenza.
Rachel: Yeah, yeah, but it's not like…it's a totally different…
Rachel: …in terms of medical care and healthcare and…no, I mean, I'm thinking in terms of of what's gonna…yeah. So this is, this is what's hard, yeah? So, so people out there, people in our proximity, you know, have…we’ve lost so many people from our team, we've had to let go of people. We've lost all of our…
Dennis: Yeah, we let go, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't lose them…
Rachel: We didn’t lose them in death, oh God, no. No. But for me, it's such a huge, massive loss. It's hard to put into words.
[20:02] Dennis: Yeah, the world is coming into a recession. It's, it's like…
Rachel: Yeah, but our losses are financial. That's what it is. Like one: in terms of our family, we are super safe. We are healthy. We have really abundant in this house with this pool, with the sunshine, like we have it so, so totally fine. We're going to be okay. And that is like a massive comfort. But in terms of our business, we don't know.
Rachel: We don't know when Island Yoga will open its doors again, we don't know how, if we'll ever have a local team again.
Dennis: If we're going to pay our Island Yoga mortgage.
Rachel: We don't know, we might lose the property, we might lose…
Dennis: Yeah. You know, stuff like that. It's all a…but this is, the whole world is dealing with this. And like I said, I know you and me, we're going to be fine. Like we're going to be resourceful. We are going to…
Rachel: Yeah. And I feel that transition…
Dennis: …there’s going to be new opportunities that are going to come up our way too.
Rachel: Yeah, but I feel like you're so good with that kind of…for me it's like the thought of like, “oh, we used to have 35 people on the team. We might have five people after this.”
Dennis: Yeah, that is, for me, that is the worst.
Dennis: That’s, that's the reason why I get my dips. It’s not…
Rachel: Yeah. It's not because of our personal situation, but what happens with our…and then that's the thing. So it's like we've been looking…yeah, we've been, up until now, the people that we've lost from the team have all been people who've had their eye on the horizon moving towards somewhere else. Like it's really been people with other opportunities, people who have like someone wants to go study and like take a whole different path in their career. Someone is like more focused on family. Like it hasn't been, we haven't had a loss of a person on the team who's been like a diehard forever, like “this is my whole life” person.
[21:37] Dennis: No, not yet.
Rachel: Not yet. Which is why I feel like, okay everyone that we lost from the Yoga Girl team, they have so much opportunity. They have family. Like it's going to be okay.
Dennis: In Sweden for instance, the people that work from the HQ in Sweden, the government helps I think with 90% of their salary?
Rachel: No, 50.
Dennis: Oh, sorry. So stuff like that, you know, that kind of support helps.
Rachel: Right. But I worry about the people who are like the people who don't have, you know, family to rely on or who don't have other opportunities present now. You know, so then it's like, okay, like we'll have everybody move in here. Like we'll start a commune out of this house. Like there's no, you know, in every team meeting. Like there's no…
Dennis: That wouldn't surprise me if people started communes now.
Rachel: Oh, sure. I would love that. I would love that.
Rachel: I was saying like we should…instead of thinking of how can each…cause that's the first instinct is “how can I be okay?” Like right. We have to make sure I'm safe, I have food. Like that's kind of how my process went. How are…how am I okay, how is my daughter and my husband, our immediate family? And then how is our team? Okay. Right. And then when that's okay, it's like, okay, how has our community, how has, how's this city? How's this island? How is this world? So with every step that we take to feeling more safe, we're able to look one step beyond our own scope and we can be of service more for other people, which is the only, it's like where we all have to lean now if we have something to give or cause not everybody is in that space.
[23:00 - Commercial Break]
[24:30] Rachel: The massive portion of struggling that's happening now with the fact that there's blessings and gratitude still, still unfolding. What if this becomes this huge rebirth where we all…like, I think it's beautiful to see how many people now are gardening, us included.
Dennis: Here in Aruba got all my friends…
Rachel: In Aruba, everyone we know…
Dennis: It’s been incredible to see.
Rachel: …is like suddenly planting stuff. Yeah.
Dennis: Everybody’s starting to plant things, stuff, in the desert.
Rachel: In the desert. And then we've always known like “you can't grow anything in Aruba,” that's bullshit. It's just this island has been a reliant…
Dennis: You need a lot of water, water is expensive here.
Rachel: Yeah, you need a lot of water. Water is expensive, but there's ways where you can, you can, may have a lesser impact. Like you can be smarter on using your gray water. Even blackwater, you can irrigate, you can uh, filter and use for plants.
Dennis: What’s black water?
Rachel: So gray water is like shower water and stuff. Black water is like toilet water, like poop water.
Dennis: Isn't that fermented?
Rachel: So I have been doing a lot, I've been doing a lot of, I've been doing a lot of research on it. So there is a filter, filtration systems that you can buy where your whole life becomes like a recyclable thing. So you can't use blackwater for I think for vegetables, but you can use them for, for different kinds of other kinds of crops and greenery and trees and stuff like that.
Dennis: Even if all you eat is vegetables?
Rachel: Yeah. I don't think it's good for human beings to ingest their own feces [laughs] no matter…regardless of what you eat. Like isn't that how pandemics begin? It's like people eating bats or like eating their own poop. I dunno, but there's ways to go about that. But no one in Aruba has really explored that, I feel. We are not…like we have a government who had a really lovely goals that they set early 2000s, of 2020 Aruba was going to be completely self sufficient when it comes to energy. All renewable recyclable energy was supposed to be solar and wind power, the whole Island. That didn't happen.
Dennis: They started.
Rachel: They started.
Dennis: The whole airport is like a huge solar park.
Rachel: Typical Caribbean fashion. “They started.”
Dennis: They tried.
Rachel: [Laughs] You got to finish what you start, like you can't just like…
Dennis: Yeah, but that was like a 20 year project. Of course the government changed along the way. Contracts get canceled. I don't know man.
Rachel: Yeah, but it's like a big goal to tell the whole world about and then to just give up.
Dennis: But that's politics.
Rachel: That’s politics, yeah. But I mean there's definitely, like if you compare Aruba with Sweden or with Costa Rica or any of the countries where we have, we visit a lot that has more of an environmental thinking, like Aruba really lacks that.
Dennis: I don't know. I have to, maybe I'm too proud.
Rachel: You want to go to the dump and check it out?
[27:03] Dennis: Yeah. That was like, that's a shit show.
Rachel: Let’s recycle like a plastic bottle?
Dennis: That's a, that's a shit show. But I mean most of our lights, I think all of our like street lights now, they're all solar powered. Like all of our crossings that used to have lights like, uh, traffic lights. I think almost all of them except for two or three on the whole Island. None of the lights are used anymore, so they don't use energy. It's all roundabouts. So a lot of the things did got changed. But…
Rachel: That’s not a lot of things.
Rachel: There's some improvement, but I think the general mentality is like, there's not a lot of education around, you know…there’s no recycling here. That's like, I used to be so ashamed to say that because I was appalled. Like when I open a can, like there's no way for me to put that can for that aluminum to, to, to, or the tin to, to become something else. Plastic bottles. They just, everything gets thrown in the same trash and the same dump that they light on fire five times a year.
Dennis: Which they say they don’t.
Rachel: Which they say they don't. They say it's “accidental fires” like the trash just combusts on its own. Like it's terrifying, but it's also like nothing that one single person can change, you know? It’s…
Dennis: Yeah I wish…I think we have bigger problems now than our landfill [laughs] in the world.
Rachel: Yeah, but, so…
Dennis: But yeah, I would, I would love for that to get solved.
Rachel: …the reason why this is interesting now is now all of our friends are gardening, like planting vegetables, interested in growing their own stuff. Like everyone we know is thinking more about “how can I produce less waste, how can I live a more zero waste centered lifestyle where I'm not just going…like what if there is no toilet paper? Like what would I use?”
[28:37] Dennis: The water.
Rachel: What if there was no water?
Dennis: Your left hand.
Rachel: [laughs] Your left hand?
Dennis: Your non dominant hand.
Rachel: [laughing] You’d be so gross. Nope. A bidet? We just, we had a bidet that we just…
Dennis: But then there was no water. How…if there's water, if there's no water, there’s no bidet.
Rachel: I think the toilet thing is like a non-issue.
Dennis: [laughs] You’re trying to create problems now.
Rachel: No, I’m saying like without toilet paper we can all survive, if there's no food we can’t, like that's just a fact.
Rachel: So what if after this pandemic, hopefully it ends with minimum, you know, that we get a grip of this and that we don't have more deaths than is absolutely necessary, which is like, I think some countries are better at than others. Aruba’s doing good.
Rachel: Really good.
Dennis: So far.
Rachel: So far.
Dennis: We have, as of today, there’s a press conference going on as we're recording so the numbers might have changed. So as of yesterday we had 55 cases. From the 55, 4 in their hospital, one is in intensive care, and no deaths so far.
Rachel: So far.
Dennis: Knock on wood.
Dennis: But uh, yeah.
Rachel: That Aruba took really serious measurements I think pretty early.
Dennis: Yeah, but compared to our neighbors we have…the thing is we're like, we're in the New York pool, like whatever New York got we got, because we have I think three or four daily flights from New York before they closed the border, and from the 55 I think 45 has been directly…
Rachel: The first 10 cases were all New York.
Dennis: New York, yeah.
Rachel: Yeah, yeah. So I mean you could say like “wish they closed the borders a little earlier,” but it is what it is.
[30: 12] Dennis: It’s scary…
Rachel: It’s not Sweden, where every schools are still open and…
Dennis: People are still going to the cafe.
Rachel: People are still, like every day I see friends of mine or acquaintances who are like, are at birthday parties and…
Rachel: “Yeah, but it's only 20 people. I didn't invite the 60 that I…” I’m like “dude, what?”
Dennis: Or when the, when our friend said, “yeah my, my son has to go to the daycare cause I have to work. I can't work if he's here.”
Rachel: [laughs] I know!
Dennis: Like fuck you, we're working harder than ever from home and we have a toddler running our life.
Rachel: Yeah, but that’s the thing. And then you cannot compare it to like the people who can't work from home.
Dennis: Or the people that can go outside at all.
Rachel: They can't go outside at all, they’re on total lockdown, don't have a yard, don't have any sunshine…like imagine the scenario of like…
Dennis: Grass is always greener somewhere else.
[30: 57] Rachel: The grass is always, in this case, like worse, like browner in other places. So taking that into account, I think it's like, for anyone who is in any kind of privileged situation right now, like we are, the moment that we've taken care of ours, you know, our family, our team that we have, like we've done everything we possibly can and we continue to do that. Then what else can we do? Like that's where I am now. It's like, okay, there's going to be families on this island, the really vulnerable families that were vulnerable and struggling prior to pandemic, that one or two weeks from now will not know how to put food on the table. Like that's very, very real. Who won't know how to pay rent. Hopefully we're, we're telling everyone we know, it’s like, you know, like “don't waste your money on rent. Like the government has to provide some sort of housing support. But you need to save money for food. Like, that's really where money should go.” And hopefully all property owners and business owners who have it really good, who are okay, can cut people some slack.
Dennis: That’s the thing. If you're, if you have it good and you're okay. And it's, it's different comparing to…cuz it’s so scary…
Rachel: I heard rumors, like people that we know. Yeah, of course it's scary. It's scary for everyone, but you have to, you have to also have some sort of reality check. Okay. It's scary for me because it's scary for us…we had a team of 35, we might be five people. We might not have a business that thrives. We might lose our business. Okay. We can go through all the worst case scenario. At the end of the day, we're not going to lose this house.
Rachel: Yeah. Like that we know like we are going to have a roof over our heads. There are people who don't have any of those privileges, who, who don't know anything. So how can I give myself that reality check of “I need to, I need to cut people some slack and be of service.” I've heard, and I haven't gossiped about this with you yet, but people that we know who have really thriving businesses on the island who have said like, “oh, I'm so thankful, now I'm getting rid of all the dead weight,” that they could fire all the people that they wanted to fire for a long time.
Dennis: Oh, that’s…that’s no bueno.
Rachel: Right? Or moving money off of the island to make sure that they don't have to pay any extra taxes because they're wealthy and things like that. So…
Dennis: Where do you get your rumors from?
[32:58] Rachel: Dude, you know these people well. This could be a [laughs] we should have a secondary show where we just gossip…
Dennis: Just for Aruba.
Rachel: Just for Aruba. No, but, and this is going to be the case everywhere, you know. In crises, there is opportunity for the rich to get richer, for people to take advantage of other people's misery. And I think everyone in this moment has to have the total opposite looking of “how can I help people who are in need.”
Dennis: I don't even see this. I don't even think about these things. I'm just thinking of like, like the only thing I can think of that is like, not the nicest probably is that, or my silver lining is that when this is, when this passes by, hopefully we have everything in tact, everybody’s good, we can take a mortgage and then maybe get our dream property in Costa Rica for a little, like less than we had before because prices should drop.
Rachel: Yeah, we were looking for, before this we were looking for properties in Costa Rica. We were going to take a take a loan so that we can build out something in Costa Rica, maybe to rent, maybe as like a little investment opportunity, and then we didn't do it because we didn't find what we were looking for, and now we're really happy and Dennis is like “maybe the prices will go down.” Yeah, but what if the prices go down because people have lost their homes? Like I'm okay with prices going down because some wealthy guy who owns a bunch of property somewhere is dropping his prices because he wants to be more liquid. Like that's okay for me.
Dennis: But that's what all the properties in Costa Rica are like right now.
Rachel: Yeah, but there's also gonna be like what I heard in Aruba, people who are looking to take advantage of the market going down where there’s people who are losing their homes.
[34:31] Dennis: Yeah, you're going to get that. But that's, that’s…yeah, it's sad, but that's standard business.
Rachel: Super sad. Super sad. But maybe that's what the rebirth is going to be, is that we are going to move away from this commercially driven, capitalistic society where money and the economy is everything, and we’re…
Dennis: I don’t know, I think…like in every case scenario, I was reading another article like in the 60s…
Rachel: What are you reading? [laughs]
Dennis: I don't know. When the, in the 60s people are very afraid of nuclear attacks. So in the States there was this very famous architect that built under house bunkers that looked like outside.
Rachel: Oh, yeah, you told me that.
Dennis: They have like sunlights or like fake lights that reflect the sun or give you the same energy as the sun, but it's all on their, on their earth, like a pool, a garden…
Rachel: This is like doomsday prepping type.
Dennis: Doomsday…there is about 300,000 properties under the earth because one — maybe more than one architect — but one architect made it famous to adapt to the market and got crazy rich from people, from people's fears or from…
Rachel: From people worrying about a nuclear…
Dennis: Yeah, or from like, probably he couldn't make normal houses anymore, so he went to the rich and say like, “hey, you can have the same life you had. I'll make it for you.”
Rachel: Yeah. That’s the thing…
Dennis: All these things, they create opportunities.
Rachel: Of course. Everyone should have that looking of “how can I innovate?” You know, if this like, maybe for us like, “okay, hey, what if we can never reopen the studio again? Okay, we're going to have to rethink what can we offer? What's the market going to look like in terms of what people want? Is everything going to be Zoom yoga now? Like how can we, the same way as restaurants are delivering, like the supermarket is delivering now, everyone is innovating. That's a good thing, but there's a difference between innovating and growing and taking an opportunity as you find it versus creating or looking for opportunity in other people's demise, or other people's loss.
[36:21] Dennis: Yeah. And in our case, we still have a grandfathered in liquor license from the 80s at our yoga studio.
Dennis: One of the few businesses on the island that's allowed to stay open til 5:00 AM on a weekday.
Rachel: Are we still paying for those permits?
Dennis: Probably not, have to get on it.
Rachel: Oh my God. Yeah. That was our standing joke like, “hey, if the yoga thing doesn't work out, we can, we can start a nightclub. Like we can start a bar, an Island Yoga.” Well, yeah, I mean would it be like a virtual bar or…[laughs]. You're thinking that the need for alcohol is going to go up and the need for yoga is going to go down. Okay. I'm thinking the opposite. Like at the end of this, what if we have less of that yearning for, for money and more of the yearning for like putting our hands in the dirt and gardening and growing things ourselves and like, I'm trying to envision some sort of utopia where like we get back to basics, where we're not so disconnected anymore. Where the world actually has some sort of rebirth toward a positive place where it's not just, there was a pandemic, people lost their jobs, people lost family members, people. We had all this loss and then we went back to what was before.
Dennis: Yeah. But that's, it's easier said when you're not the one getting that check for $400 a month or 450, if you're like people that we know that are like, have to live on this check. I don't think they have that…
Rachel: That mindset, of course not.
Dennis: That mindset, or that longing at all.
Rachel: Of course not.
Dennis: They just want security, they just want…and we're blessed. We have for, I don't know, keep knocking on wood, for a couple more months we have our security.
[37:56] Rachel: How many more months?
Dennis: I dunno.
Rachel: Like not infinite.
Dennis: No, no, no. You and me, I don't know, like four or five months, we’re okay.
Rachel: Four or five months we’re okay.
Rachel: Okay, cool. So, so let's be calm for four to five, four or five months. Some people have that like four or five days, or had that four or five days ago and it's not okay.
Dennis: No, majority of people are paycheck to paycheck.
Rachel: So then how do you keep…
Dennis: So it’s very easy…
Rachel: …that looking of, yeah, but I mean, and then think of the people in this life who have like, “oh, I have four to five years where I'm set because that's how much money I have in the bank. Or I have 45 years where I have generations of all my children and their children will be safe forever because I'm fucking Jeff Besos,” or something. That's the absurdity. I've been seeing so many…this is how tic toc is interesting to me. I've been looking at a lot of these tic tocs of, I follow these mathematicians and people who are into analytics and statistics and stuff, where they're showing how the billionaires of this world, like the, the minor minor minor steps that they have taken so far to actually support and give businesses and people help. How little it would take, like they, it would barely make a dent in their fortune and they'd be able to save lives. Like maybe even…
Dennis: But didn’t some of them step up?
Rachel: …save society. Like the same few people, like, I don't know.
Dennis: Didn’t that guy that you just mentioned, the Amazon guy, didn't he just donate like 20 or $40 million or something like that?
Rachel: Yeah, but the point was it was so…it sounds like a lot to us because that's an…
Dennis: It is a lot of money.
Rachel: …enormous sum of money, but when you have more money than God, like that doesn't make a difference. It's like you giving a $5 bill to someone. Like…
[39:32] Dennis: Maybe, but 20 million is still better than zero million.
Rachel: Of course it’s better than zero. But I mean, this is what's wrong with our society. This is a hundred percent it, and this is why the vulnerable are the most vulnerable now and why the rich are going to be fine. Like there needs to be some sort of redistribution of wealth or some sort of like change in the, in the system where this is not okay. Can't be okay that five people in the world have more money than 50% of the whole popu…like that makes no sense.
Rachel: So maybe that's what will happen. And then through that we'll have a better, like a safer place for, for, for everyone, not just for this privileged few.
[40:10 — Commercial Break]
[41:36] Dennis: If we go back, what do you suggest for those five people that are richer, richer than 50% of the world?
Rachel: Those richest people in the world who have the billions and billions and billions, I think they need some yoga.
Rachel: I think they need some…100%. Like, I think if you have that amount of money and you're not giving and you feel fine having $100 billion like and you feel fine with that, that you need some yoga. Like you need some sort of, some sort of contemplation, you know, where you can feel safe inside of yourself to to decide, “here's what I need for the rest of my life to be okay,” and then give the rest of the way. Yeah. I'm not a communist.
Dennis: No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that, but I'm just trying to get into your thoughts right now. So you think that these people shouldn't pay more tax, but they should willingly make their own or help like other nonprofits or help where they feel it's more needed?
Rachel: Well both. If people wanted to give, you didn't have, you wouldn't have to tax. Like if that was a normal thing where we all felt some sort of oneness where if that family is suffering, that's my suffering too. We wouldn't need a system like that. People would just distribute wealth in a more fair way.
Rachel: Then there's ways you can do that without taking away incentives for growth. Like for sure.
Dennis: Yeah. But like for me, for instance, like I would rather give into a organization that I know, will do with my own research compared to paying tax. But this, this is me. I'm sure a lot of people share that…
[43:07] Rachel: Because you had the choice…
Dennis: …because you have the choice…
Rachel: …you can trust it.
Dennis: …and there's a lot of distrust with my, most of people with governments for instance, there's always like a distrust because you don't know where your money is going. But going back to this, this group…
Rachel: It’s also your money, like that whole concept. It’s like not recognizing the privilege to systemic privilege that that so many of us have in this world that put us in a place where it was, it was made possible to make that kind of money, where a huge majority of the population never could. So it's not like, “ooh, Jeff Besos worked harder than everybody else, he was smarter than everybody.” Compare that to like a woman of color, or a minority who could never even, you know, didn't have the same tools in the first place. It's like you're starting a hundred yards back in the race.
Dennis: Yeah, that's, that's a whole different, conversation. And I, and I agree with that…
Rachel: No, that’s part of it.
Dennis: But I feel like a lot of these wealthy people…I’m not trying to defend anyone — like a carrot for most of these people is the money. Like they're like, of course you can get to a certain type of wealth and you don't have to work a day anymore in your life. But the, what keeps them going is like, “oh, I need to make another billion,” or “I need to…” and that's what, what's, keep pushing them. So as soon as you have like a line from, “hey, you're not going to keep your money anymore,” people are gonna stop expanding, stop growing and stop…so it's like a, it's like a balancing act.
Rachel: That’s because that's the norm we set, like living in a capitalistic society where everything that matters is the dollar, you know? That's what we value, is the dollar. What if we valued something else? Like what if we valued love or compassion or feeling of being at peace. And I would just imagine that someone who has that kind of wealth, like there's going to be something inside that's a little bit broken if you're not giving.
Rachel: If you have such an unbelievable, astronomical type of abundance and you're able to cut yourself off from the suffering of other people so much that you don't care, or like it doesn't occur to you that you could give, there must be something broken there that I think…
Dennis: Can you give an example of one of those mega-rich dudes or girls that does do a lot, that do a lot of good in the world?
Rachel: Yeah. So I think the obvious example that people look to is Bill Gates, Bill and Melinda Gates, and there's a lot of things you know, that are not super popular around them. But still having given a majority of earnings, or a majority of assets away is a huge thing. I know there’s — I don't know how to pronounce his last name — but Azim Premji?
[45:39] Dennis: Is he like a sheik or something?
Rachel: No, he was a software, like an Indian software billionaire who gave away 75% of all of his assets.
Rachel: Yeah. And knowing that the rest of the 25%, you're still leaving behind generational wealth, like enough for so, for your entire lineage to be okay.
Dennis: So this Jeffy boy, Amazon guy…[laughs]
Rachel: Amazon guy is doing terribly. And of course it sounds huge, but if you look at actual proportion, you know, it's like 0.05% or something.
Dennis: I’ll take that any day [laughs].
Rachel: You'll take that…yeah, it's better than zero. Yeah. But I mean it's, it's like what's expected, you know. It’s just the fact that we live in a society that allows for this, for this in the first place, I think is really absurd. I love that this is where our conversation went. So how about this? What is something that you think that that we could do right now to help people who are actually suffering? Without being a billionaire, without being Jeff Bezos.
Dennis: Food. Food banks, food. Like if you can cook, you can cook for 10 families easily. Like we could make a shitload of rice, beans and probably we won't be the most popular donators because it's all vegetarian or vegan, and most of the people here are not but…
Rachel: For proper organizations, I don't think they accept cooked food. I think there's like regulation around that.
[47:03] Dennis: I think right now there are people that you can just cook for 10 families and just put it in like in a Tupperware and go bring it to houses
Rachel: Oh, for sure, like in your local community? People that you know?
Rachel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Hundred percent, especially knowing like there's elderly people in our communities now who can't leave their house where it's really, really unsafe for them to go to groceries.
Dennis: You can donate your time.
Rachel: You can donate your time, help them get groceries, of course. Cooking for people who have a hard time getting through that on their own, food banks in terms of like, I'm going to give it three months with this bag of 27 kilos of rice.
Rachel: That’s for my peace of mind. If three months from now, like this has eased up, yeah, we're going to give all of that to a food bank. You can donate money to organizations who help feed…
Dennis: Oh yeah, aren’t we joining that?
Rachel: …disadvantaged people. Joining what? We're doing, there's a campaign that's going to be launched, to help support Aruba specifically that of course we're going to do everything we can to support that. I think the, the closer to home we can stay, I think the better.
Dennis: The easiest too.
Rachel: Yeah. And the more you can trust that you know where your money and where the food you're giving is going. So can you help your neighbors? Like do that. Can you help your neighborhood? Do that. Can you help your community, do that, and then look beyond. And I think every single day, if we look for ways to be of service, the universe is going to present us with something, with some way to actually help change someone else's life in a minor way. Like something I'm doing today, we know, a family that's very vulnerable that we've been helping for a couple of months and they are home with two kids. They don't have a TV or wifi or a computer or an iPad, like they have literally nothing. So just us putting out the call, like it's such an easy thing for me to put out the call and saw, “hey, how can we get our hands on an old device so we can give them a Netflix account so that she can keep her kids entertained, like a little bit.” Like that's such a tiny thing.
[48:50] Dennis: Yeah.
Rachel: It doesn't cost me a cent, and it's definitely gonna make a change in her day, cause this single mom is going to get a break, you know? So what are ways we can be of service, we should all…
Dennis: I’m already doing that to another family.
Rachel: You are? Who?
Dennis: Yeah, you don’t even know. I can’t mention their name.
Rachel: No, but I mean like someone here? Local?
Rachel: I love you. What if, wait, what if it's the same family?
Dennis: It’s not the same family. The family you're talking about, I know who they are, but I don't know them personally.
Rachel: Okay, okay. See but that's good.
Dennis: But that, yeah, I don't even count it because it's so…
Rachel: No, bit I mean…it’s so minor. Yeah. But a lot of people don't think of that. Like it's like we are trying to find ways all the time to help in ways that we can. We don't have to talk about it. We don't have to like explain, “look at this grand gesture I did, like I found an old iPad to give to someone.” Like, no, but if you keep that set of looking, you are going to make a difference. And then of course, you know, if we get to a place where our business is okay, which I hope so we can reignite our nonprofits and start, you know, doing a bigger difference on the larger scale. I think that would be good. I really appreciate this conversation by the way, on social economics and…
[49:58] Rachel: Yeah, I like talking about this kind of stuff with you.
Dennis: It’s not going to be a boring podcast for the listeners?
Rachel: I don’t know, you guys have to tell us if this is boring. I had all these people were like, “how do you keep the intimacy alive during the pandemic?”
Dennis: Oh, don't have kids.
Dennis: There, next questions [laughs].
Rachel: [laughing] I shared the funnest tweet I read this whole pandemic was “for everyone who says that there's going to be a baby boom in nine months. Sure. But all of those kids are going to be firstborns.” Because no one with kids right now is having sex. We're doing okay.
Dennis: Maybe you're doing okay.
Dennis: I don't know how your sex lives is.
Rachel: So it's our 10 year anniversary. What do you have? What do you have planned for me today?
Dennis: I didn't know. It's not like I can go shopping and get like sexy underwears for me to wear for you…
Dennis: …everything’s closed.
Rachel: But I actually have, it's your birthday in two weeks. I have your birthday gift magically like ready. So I'm very proud of that. Like that’s…
Dennis: I hope I can get your birthday gift in October.
Rachel: [laughing] Dude. If we are all not okay breathing like outside hugging each other by October, I…
Dennis: I'm outta here.
Rachel: Where? [laughs] Where?
Dennis: Anywhere else.
Rachel: Where are we going? So, but to answer that question, kind of to, to, to wrap up this conversation on, on the economy and politics, how do you think…
[51:24] Dennis: Don’t have kids.
Rachel: Don’t have kids. How, how or do you think we're doing relationship-wise in this pandemic?
Dennis: What’s…you just went from economy to relationship?
Rachel: Yeah, cause the majority of questions people, I want to make sure we answer like three questions that people actually ask.
Dennis: Okay. Ask them.
Rachel: Okay. People were asking if we have any advice on how to like not kill each other. [laughs]
Dennis: No, we only have advice on how to kill each other.
Rachel: [laughing] How would you kill me if you, if you like…
Dennis: There is…well…I don’t want to speak too fast with these answers.
Dennis: I don't want it to sound premeditated…but icepick. Good luck finding the murder weapon.
Rachel: Wait, you mean like an ice, like not an ice pick that you pick ice. You mean made with ice.
Dennis: No, an ice like spear that melts.
Rachel: Where are you going to get your hands on that?
Dennis: That’s a problem for future…
Rachel: Maybe Corksicle can make you one…
Dennis: …that’s a problem for future Dennis.
Rachel: [laughing] That was a very fast, fast answer there, huh? Okay. Let me, let me…omeone is asking, “are you romantic with each other? How do you keep the romance alive?”
[52:37] Dennis: That’s, I to be honest, I think we could use some help there.
Rachel: Yeah? Being more like, purposefully romantic? I think…no, listen, we have breakfast together around the table with candles lit every day. We have dinner together with like candles and wine a lot…
Dennis: But then…
Rachel: …we like make an effort to cook.
Dennis: …every time I hug you, you're like “stop.”
Rachel: You're so clingy. Oh, that was a lot of…wait, I got so many questions about that.
Dennis: No, not clingy, you always complain for me thrusting against you.
Rachel: There’s, there is romance and then there's just like…
Rachel: …overt sexual tension all day.
Dennis: There’s a lot of lust from my end.
Rachel: [laughs] Someone asked, because I was making jokes about this on Instagram stories where, where you are a very physical person, like you like to cuddle and cling.
Rachel: You call it cuddling, I call it clinging. I am more, like I need space. Lea also like doesn't like to be clung to [laughs] and I actually got several questions of people who are like, “I am in a similar, similar relationship where my spouse [laughs] is a little bit more physically compassionate, or, as you call it, ‘clingy.’”
Dennis: Politically correct.
Rachel: “How do you guys work through that?” [laughs] So funny. Do you…wait?
[53:57] Dennis: As soon as I start ignoring you, you be, you become clingy.
Rachel: Yeah, exactly.
Dennis: Like as soon as you feel like I'm not clingy, you think there's something wrong and then you're the one clinging.
Dennis: So my advice for your better half that clings a lot is like, ignore.
Rachel: [laughing] Ignore.
Dennis: Works every time.
Rachel: Social distance [laughs] social distance from your partner. No, I think, because you do have this tendency of like picking your moments poorly, I think. So sometimes when I'm like really in, like I'm on my way, like I'm getting out of bed, and you can sense, “oh, she's getting out of bed,” then you cling to me like a tick, like a koala baby, like you know, and then…
Dennis: Because you didn’t give me any.
Dennis: If you were clinging to me before you got out of bed, you wouldn't have that problem.
Rachel: To answer this person's question properly, it helps me to remind myself of that like physical touch and connection and cuddling and clinging and sex and everything that's body, that is how you show and receive emotion. For me, I'm more in the intellectual space. Right? I like to communicate and talk and like hear how you're feeling.
Dennis: Oh, that’s a joke on you.
[55:08] Rachel: Exactly.
Dennis: You didn't get any intellect over here.
Dennis: You went for the trophy husband.
Rachel: [laughing] Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
Dennis: And for the other partners, an ice spiro.
Rachel: A what?
Dennis: An ice pick. Ice spiro.
Rachel: What’s the spiro?
Dennis: Like if you can't get rid of them, you use that weapon.
Rachel: Oh, you used ice picked to dislodge from your partner. No, but it's an important thing to remember that we all communicate our needs in different ways, we all have our needs met in different way, we all show love in different way, and I think also between women and men I think this is a little more common where like if we have an issue, I want to talk about it and get to the root of it so I can understand you, and you just want to be close.
Rachel: So I think having both of those needs met is an important thing to keep in mind. Look at that. Isn't that…ooh, so a lot of people were asking, I don't know if you remember this, but last year, maybe a year ago, there was a woman who came to the studio and handed me like a note because she was psychic. Do you remember this?
Dennis: Oh yeah, we won.
Rachel: [laughing] what…
Dennis: Because she said you'll be pregnant in February.
Dennis: Oh, anyway, we still won. It's April now.
Rachel: I thought it was February, but now all these people were like, “oh, she…we’re all waiting for a pregnancy announcement that you're going to be pregnant by March.” I don't know. Maybe I got pregnant yesterday. Who knows?
[56:27] Dennis: I don't know. You don't let me….
Rachel: Okay. Move on. Move on. So do you think that we won because she was…
Rachel: She was wrong.
Rachel: Are we going to have more babies?
Dennis: I don't know. But the time is like…
Rachel: What, time is what?
Dennis: Time is ticking. I'm not going to have like a, like a 20 year old daughter and then like an infant like baby, like fuck that.
Rachel: She’s…we have a three year old, okay.
Rachel: She's not 20.
Dennis: In 15 years, she’s out of this house.
Dennis: My backpack is already packed. I'm going to go to Kilimanjaro.
Rachel: [laughing] You are so ready. How’s parenthood right now?
[57:10] Dennis: I love her so much.
Dennis: But I'm ready to go to Kilimanjaro.
Rachel: But couldn't you, couldn't you…what people say is when you have two kids, you think it's not going to be as good or you, you can't imagine that the love would be the same. But can you imagine feeling this love just times two? Like you know, having…what if we had a little boy and you had like a boy to do whatever. There's no difference, like…
Dennis: I can only think about like how are they going to nap? How am I going to get my one hour of lunch break from them? Will we need more help? Like the love part would come afterwards [laughs].
Rachel: Love part would come later. So that's a no then, no more kids?
Dennis: It's like now. Like we already won so we don't have to prove anything anymore to that psychically [laughs].
Rachel: I don't think of psychic messages as like “beating them,” like making sure that they're wrong…
Dennis: Proving them wrong altogether.
Rachel: So I would love to have one more, and again, before I used to want to have six kids, now I feel like one more would be nice. I don't want to have any like nausea. I can't take being not, like no morning sickness.
Dennis: What about giving birth?
Rachel: Wait, I’m…
Dennis: You’re getting there.
Rachel: We’re doing this month by month. I want no nausea. If I'm going to be tired, I need to make sure that I don't have to do any work. Okay. I don't want to work. I just want to be pregnant and that's it. I want the birth to be in a pool at home, and I would like some sort of contract that that's going to happen. Like I don't want to go to a hospital.
Dennis: Last time it was on you though.
Rachel: And I would like to make sure that this child sleeps and lets me sleep, and I would want to make sure that Lea Luna wouldn't feel neglected or like she lost my attention. And I would kinda like to fast forward to having like a two year old and a five year old or six year old. What would it be? Two and six I guess. Yeah. That would be cool.
[59:12] Dennis: If you were to get pregnant now it will be two and six.
Rachel: Two and six. Yeah. Can you make that happen for me? Cause then we, I mean let's get busy. Let's go.
Dennis: I can, I can donate my sperm to you.
Rachel: [laughs] How kind. Kind, good sir. Okay.
Dennis: That I can do. I remember the, the birth, like, as soon as we got to the hospital, there was some kind of like relief for you.
Dennis: And it started happening. Like there was a block at home.
Rachel: I felt, I think it was a, I’ve spoken about this on the show that the thing I thought was terrible was like needing help. Like if this is something I do on my own and no intervention, no other person present. It was like, I asked for help. Like I had to admit to myself like “I need some divine interference. I can't do it alone,” and then I put my control down and she just…
Dennis: And our hospital experience was just…
Rachel: We didn't see anybody, like we didn't have…
Dennis: It was 3:00 AM…
Rachel: No drugs.
Dennis: …we were the only person in the whole wing of the hospital.
Rachel: There was no one else giving birth.
Dennis: No one there. It was dark.
Rachel: We lit candles and incense in the hospital. Like who allows you to do that?
Dennis: Yeah, I don’t know.
Rachel: Only in Aruba.
Dennis: it was…yeah.
Rachel: No, it didn't change anything. Like physically, it wasn't like I had an epidural or I had a bunch of drugs or anything like that. It was the, it was the surrender for me, which like I can't, “I can ask for help,” and then it just happened. But yeah, also it's like it would be exciting to be pregnant again, but also it sounds exhausting to deal with a, with like a newborn and a toddler, but she's so chill now.
Dennis: I don't know man.
Dennis: She is chill. It's just…
Rachel: She’s the best.
Dennis: …it’s a lot of work.
Rachel: It’s not like compared to what it was, now I feel like she can spend two hours alone and not even bother us, and it's like okay. You don't feel that way?
Dennis: Maybe. I don't feel it.
[61:00] Rachel: [laughs] You forget how good…you don't even know. You've forgotten how good we have it now because you've forgotten how hard it was when she was like really little.
Dennis: I don't know.
Rachel: It would be nice to be a family of four.
Dennis: Okay, next question.
Rachel: Okay. So maybe, maybe we'll have, maybe we'll have another kid. Maybe.
Dennis: Maybe we'll have sex. We'll see.
Rachel: [laughing] What the fuck man? You have to be so inappropriate all the time. There's a lot of people asking about your veganism, but I feel like we've, we talk about that a lot. You want to give like a brief update on your vegan situation? Cause I feel like I'm losing you.
Dennis: Yeah, I'm still vegan, but I've been, since this pandemic I have been getting very nostalgic.
Dennis: I don't know. I've been listening to all these like punk rock, emo rock songs from when I was like 14 years old. Like on my way to go to surf, I would like, I don't know. It's kind of funny to see actually. And one of the things I miss the most is fish. Like fish, locally caught fish from my old boss that I just sashimi up on my own or I like, I make a burger from. So I’m…
Rachel: That’s not from when you were 14, you didn't eat fish when you were 14.
Dennis: I ate fish, but I, that was not those, it is a nostalgic thing getting fish from my, from my old boss. It's not, it's not from long ago, but it is a nostalgic thing. So I don't know. That's something I've been missing. I haven't acted on it yet though.
Dennis: And if I act on it, I'm sorry vegan people, but…
Rachel: No, I, there's, there's moments where I've been like, “dude, you should eat whatever the hell you want, but you should want to be vegan.” Like you told me something so nice awhile ago. Like you wish there wasn't so much suffering involved in getting these kinds of foods, like for animals to have to suffer.
Dennis: When did I ever say that?
[63:01] Rachel: You said “I wish there wasn't murder involved.” We spoke about this on something.
Dennis: You must've been high.
Rachel: No! Dude, dude.
Rachel: Out of the two of us, I'm not the one to get high. Ooh! As I say that, I read a question that says, “does Dennis smoke herb occasionally? He looks like he would.” [laughs]
Dennis: I do not smoke. I actually, I dunno, I don't like the feeling of getting high, but during this pandemic we've, we've bought like THC gummies, I don't know, a while back and there've been always in the back of the fridge. And these days where I did have dip, I would eat one and then go to bed. And it, it's so nice.
Rachel: Yeah. I don't, I really…so I'm like a…weed is not like, I like CBD, I take a lot of CBD. I take CBD for back pain, for anxiety, like almost every single day. But I don't like being high. I never in my life had like a high experience that I enjoyed.
Rachel: Like I like for spiritual ritual, like I would, I would do things, but not like smoking weed and stuff and stuff like that. I dunno.
Dennis: I never liked the smoking part.
Rachel: No, but even like the edibles, and you'll take like one of those little gummies that we smuggled in from Med Men in California and I just get the feeling…and I'll do like a quarter of a quarter — you’ll do half of one and I'll take a quarter of a quarter — and then I just feel like my whole body melts into the couch…I just feel like I'm useless. Like what's the point? Maybe you like to relax. I don't like to relax.
Dennis: No, I feel like a buzz. It's kind of like you get a buzz from alcohol. It's a different buzz. I, yeah.
Rachel: We’ve had that one bag forever in our fridge.
Dennis: We’ve had that one bag forever in our fridge, and I on a day to day when everything is normal, I don't even touch it. It's there. It's just now I'm so grateful that it's in our, in our fridge during this time of quarantine.
[64:56] Rachel: But what does that give you? Does that give you a time to check out? Is it like a, like what, what, what's the benefit for you?
Dennis: It’s an ease of mind, it’s a…
Rachel: It's like having two glasses of wine. Is it the same feeling?
Dennis: Kinda. It’s…I don't get anxiety, but when I do get anxiety it takes it, it takes all the anxiety away, and that for me is like a huge plus.
Rachel: But that's good.
Rachel: It’s okay. I think it's totally fine to have ways of self-medicating. Like we all should have some outlets that work for us, but I wish you would like, come talk to me about it first.
Dennis: You? What if you're the problem and I need to get away from you.
Rachel: Someone just, I’m reading this: “how often do you fight or argue? If one of you says something hurtful, how do you move past it?”
Dennis: So Rachel spends a lot of money on therapy.
Rachel: [laughing] Dude, we spend equal, equal money on therapy. Let's talk about therapy.
Dennis: yeah, what do you want to know?
Rachel: How is it going for you?
Dennis: How is it going for me?
Dennis: It's going okay.
Rachel: You want to, you want to share with the world? I think it’s…
Dennis: I do one hour a week of therapy and it…it’s good. I don't know how to share it better.
Rachel: I mean, you started in, when did you start?
Dennis: I don't know, August last year?
Rachel: And what inspired it?
Rachel: What the fuck, wait. Me being a problem, or me like inspiring you to talk to someone?
Dennis: Like you telling me that I should like…I don't know how to put this in the word. It's semi-forced but it's like forced in the way, like how you would like force your better person to eat mushrooms or to…
Rachel: How he forced Lea Luna to eat her broccoli.
Rachel: We don't force, we nudged gently and…
Dennis: You nudge, I force. It's like, you know, it's kind of good for you, you want to…you don't want to do it, but you'll try it and then it's easy. It's been going good.
Rachel: It has been going good.
[66:57] Rachel: Yeah. You have this routine and you do them early mornings and so, yeah. And because I love it when you talk about it because I think there is a little bit of a stigma around men. I think it's more socially accepted for women to be in therapy.
Dennis: I don’t see that at all.
Rachel: Do you have any friends…
Rachel: …guy friends who are in therapy currently?
Dennis: Yeah, I just can't remember. I mentioned it and then the two of my guy friends just started talking to me about it. Like, “oh, who do you use? How do you go?” And because I don't want to do with, I don't want to talk about anyone local cause I feel like Aruba is so small. You know someone's cousin, you know someone's mom. It's like I don't feel, I don't feel safe, let's put it like that. And no. Yeah it's fine.
Rachel: And what the, they said it in a way like they also were looking for someone or they all are already seeing someone?
Dennis: They're also talking people.
Rachel: That’s awesome. That’s makes me so happy to hear.
Dennis: So for me it’s not like a big deal at all.
Rachel: It was a big deal. The thought…like for years I was nudging you to like, “hey it's like good to talk someone or process.”
Dennis: I just thought it was a waste of money. Like in the beginning. That’s…not in the beginning, but when you told me about it I, it's kind of a expensive.
Rachel: Kind of like Path of Love like I've been nudging you for years.
Dennis: Yeah. And I'm really happy that we have a pandemic going on right now. I was supposed to do one in June, and…
Rachel: This is like my biggest heartbreak.
Dennis: …and for one reason or another reason, a dude decided to eat bat last year in November and now I'm not going to Path of Love.
Rachel: Look at that. Get that. You think you'll go at another time when this pandemic is over?
[68:28] Dennis: I don't know man. I feel like this was my only shot to go and I just lost it.
Rachel: [laughing] Fuck you. But I think, I think therapy's good. Like it's not like after every time you have a therapy session I can immediately sense an effect, you know, like there's something hugely different for you. I think with me, I am more like very emotional in my therapy sessions. Like I'll come down from a therapy and be crying or like I have something I want to share with you because I realized something. With you, it's not like that.
Dennis: No. Well to be honest now that I'm not running and all that stuff, this is my only way of processing and it's been a lot easier. I've noticed like not running and not processing on my own, it’s been a lot easier to talk like to a, to like a therapist, to you have sessions…before, like when I would run like five or four hours a week, it was a lot harder for me to have these conversations because I would process it while I'm running.
Rachel: So now you have more, you know…
Dennis: I have more buildup that I can release compared to normally when I'm like training for an Ironman, I have the release constant daily.
Rachel: But do you think the release is the same like talking to another human being versus just running on your own?
[69:44] Dennis: For me, yes.
Rachel: How are you so sure? I am so convinced that that can not be true. I get that there is some sort of release and process for sure, and exercise and movement and that's your way and being a physical person also for sure. But there must be something different having a person on the other end because you have to be vulnerable.
Dennis: I’m sure that I have no problem with being vulnerable. I think that's, maybe that's the problem for most people. Like I'll just blurt it out, say it as it is. And I hopefully I don’t…
Rachel: Dude, I will totally dispute that with…
Dennis: With a stranger on the phone, I have no problem being vulnerable.
Rachel: Okay, well that's good.
Dennis: But, I don't know, if I have questions of course, then they help me a lot better, but when I'm running I feel like if you ask me, I process better when I'm running.
Rachel: You get emotional in your, in your long runs?
Dennis: I don't get emotional on the phone.
Rachel: Nope. Never?
Rachel: Not one time?
Dennis: Not one time. And while running, while biking, yes.
Rachel: You’ve never gotten emotional…
Rachel: Well, where did, where do your emotions go?
Dennis: I didn't know you're hiding them from me.
Rachel: No, your emotions [laughs].
Dennis: You’re robbing me from my emotions. No, I don't know. I, I can get, like if I go on a hard like trail run in the sun, I can get emotional like I can, I process so much. It could be like, like a stupid, like a butterfly landing on a rock, I’m like [sobs].
Rachel: Oh, my God, I love it.
Dennis: But when I'm talking to someone that's just, I can’t.
Dennis: Like I don't know if it might be a block, I don't know. It's just like, you know, you have to like, like I'm vulnerable. I'll tell everything as it is. But you still have like, you know, you're dealing with another human being. When I'm on my own in the wild, it's not like that at all.
Rachel: In the wild.
Dennis: In the desert.
Rachel: In the desert.
[71:30] Dennis: Next question.
Rachel: I am really proud of you for talking to someone. I think that's a big, I think it's a big deal. Maybe you don't think, feel like it's a big deal. I think…
Dennis: I don’t think it’s a big deal.
Rachel: …it’s a big deal for me, I think it's really good for just knowing that you have an outlet to speak. Also knowing like just as far as I know, I know I don't know everything, but the way I speak to my girlfriends when I have a problem, when I'm sad, when I'm depressed, I don't see you doing that in the same way. Like I see you when you get depressed, you kind of shut, shut in more.
Rachel: And I do the opposite. Like I reach out more. So we know when it comes to depression, it's like suicide rates for men over all are way higher. And I think because of that reason that men don't necessarily, in the same way, reach out and ask for help the way, not that every man and every woman, but statistically that way. So for me, just knowing that, you just having that practice of, you know, right now things aren't hard. It's not like you're depressed. But I think having the outlet of just speaking to someone is super, super important.
Dennis: Yeah. Those statistics, there's a lot of variables to them as well. But uh…
Rachel: Do you think it's has something to do with, because as far as I know, like your guy friends and all the dudes and all the guys, you guys don't talk about your problems with each other as much as I do with my girlfriends. Do you think that's true?
Dennis: Yeah, for sure on that.
Rachel: Why? Why is that?
Dennis: If you, I dunno if you could, if you put it on the level of, I don't know…on how you talk about things, you guys are a lot more open and down to the point and detailed. I do have like my guys trip when we go to these Ironmans, it's like always like a group of three or four and then we do have a lot of intimate conversations, which I like from those trips as well. But I don't think it comes nearly close to your level of…
Rachel: Well that’s like two times a year you go.
Dennis: Yeah. Now, zero.
Rachel: Now it’s zero. Maybe…could have been a Path of Love Ironman.
[73:29] Dennis: It was supposed to be four. We were supposed to do four this year in exchange for Path of Love.
Rachel: You'll, you'll keep them. They'll, there will be more years, there'll be more Ironmans.
Dennis: For me, I thought this year was my last like Ironman year. 2021 we'll probably like shoot a little boy out of you and then I can't do anything for a year, and then we'll try again like 2022 again.
Rachel: Wait, that's your…”shoot a little boy out of me.” That means that we would have a a son.
Rachel: Okay. Okay. Okay. Just so we’re on the same page, okay.
Dennis: How would you put it?
Rachel: Well, my pro…my experience of giving birth was not, there was not a lot of shooting out.
Dennis: Me, I just would like “pop.’
Rachel: I remember more like 24 hours of agony, and like three hours of pushing and yeah, you know. I love that you come on the show. Why aren't you on the show more often?
Dennis: I’m always at the…I’m always home.
Rachel: Where else would you be?
Rachel: Is there anything, yeah…any words of wisdom you would like to leave our, our many listeners right now?
[74:38] Dennis: If you do make that ice spiro, make sure that mold is like burned.
Dennis: Cause if the mold, cause you have to…to make that ice spiro, you need to have a mold to make that into a shape.
Rachel: Are you saying spear?
Dennis: Spiro, yeah.
Rachel: Spiro. What’s a…you mean the spear, like you're making a spear out of ice.
Dennis: Yeah, yeah, spiro.
Rachel: Oh okay. Make sure that you what?
Dennis: Whatever mold you have to make that ice weapon, it doesn't have to be a spear. It can be whatever.
Rachel: As long as it's made out of ice.
Dennis: It needs to be made of ice. That mold that you have, make sure that mold is gone. Because if the ice melts but you have the mold in the freezer, of course they're going to catch you.
Rachel: [laughing] Okay, this is foolproof you guys. Good luck. Good luck everybody with your respective partners and spouses and girlfriends and husbands and oh my…Jesus Christ. Okay. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You're going to go surfing now?
Rachel: Okay. I'm going to go sit on the couch. Thank you everyone for listening. If any of this was inappropriate, I blame my husband entirely and I'll see you next week.
[End of Episode]